Two questions regarding the deployment of these new 5-car trains:

1) are there routes on which they will completely replace the Class 465 and
466s?

2) if so, for those routes where the platform length limits trains to eight
carriages, will all current 6- and 8-car trains be replaced by 5-car trains,
or can they operate 10-car trains where doors on the two rearmost carriages
won't open at all stations?

S R

"S R" wrote in message
...
Two questions regarding the deployment of these new 5-car trains:

1) are there routes on which they will completely replace the Class 465
and
466s?

2) if so, for those routes where the platform length limits trains to
eight
carriages, will all current 6- and 8-car trains be replaced by 5-car
trains,
or can they operate 10-car trains where doors on the two rearmost
carriages
won't open at all stations?

AIUI they will operate on Charing Cross and Cannon Street services. All
platforms on these routes were extended to take 10-car trains in the 1950s,
and many were further extended to 12-car length in the abortive scheme of
the early 1990s. They will not normally operate on Victoria/Blackfriars
routes, where many suburban platforms can still only take 8-car trains.
There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.

Peter

"Peter Masson" wrote in message


There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.

There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick









--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Nick Lawford wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote in message



There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick









Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.

James Looker wrote in message ...
Nick Lawford wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote in message



There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick


Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.

No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.

MIG wrote:
James Looker wrote in message ...

Nick Lawford wrote:

"Peter Masson" wrote in message




There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick



Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.


No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.

I seem to recall having heard talk that (somehow) these trains were to
be kept off longer distance trips such as beyond Dartford, and people
here (on both uk.railway and u.t.l) pointing out how dificult that would
be. Have TPTB finally given up the idea of keeping them off Gillingham
services and the like?

Robin

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced by
5-car trains.

S R

"S R" wrote in message ...
I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced by
5-car trains.

S R

I wouldn't be at all surprised. History shows a reduction in length
when new stock is introduced.

I guess we can take it that the introduction of five-car units is a
confirmation that we will never see the twelve-car trains for which
all those platforms were extended.

Maybe there has been an improvement in availability, but only in the
last couple of years has the peak-hour train length finally started to
increase (to a maximum of ten), after the general reduction in length
when the "Networkers" were introduced.

It was galling to have to stand in shorter trains when they were
introduced, having gone through all that disruption to extend the
platforms for the "longer Networker trains".

Soon after, some twelve-car slam-door trains on Ramsgate/Margate
services to Cannon Street were replaced by eight-car 365s. Did the
365s ever run in longer formations than that? I can't remember seeing
one.

S R wrote:
I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.


My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced by
5-car trains.

Which stations/routes are restricted to 8 cars? I might have been
sensible to have designed the 376s with selective door opening to permit
10 car working to these stations.

What actually is the history of the 12 car networker thing? I recall
lots of platform lengthening happening at about the time the networkers
were coming in, but I wasn't really paying attention at the time? What
work was left undone that would have allowed 12 car trains, and what
were the originally intended routes for them?

Robin

"S R" wrote in message
...

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced
by
5-car trains.

S R

Speaking of 5-car formations, I've noticed some nice new "5 car stop" signs
appearing near some of the platform monitors on these routes (surely they
could just use the "6 car stop" positions anyway? Seem incredibly efficient
to have started this already when there must be so many other tasks to do in
tidying up SET's scruffy stations)

Still no sign of toilets on my route (Sidcup line) which we were promised
*before* deployment of any 376 units. Having said that, some bizarre
looking 5-metre steel uprights have been embedded in the platform area of
Sidcup station on the Dartford-bound platform, either side of an existing
set of seats. This might be the beginning of a new structure that might be
toilets? Might be completely unrelated though...

Nick