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Old November 27th 04, 04:49 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
S R S R is offline
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

Two questions regarding the deployment of these new 5-car trains:

1) are there routes on which they will completely replace the Class 465 and
466s?

2) if so, for those routes where the platform length limits trains to eight
carriages, will all current 6- and 8-car trains be replaced by 5-car trains,
or can they operate 10-car trains where doors on the two rearmost carriages
won't open at all stations?

S R



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Old November 27th 04, 05:00 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Class 376 deployment questions


"S R" wrote in message
...
Two questions regarding the deployment of these new 5-car trains:

1) are there routes on which they will completely replace the Class 465

and
466s?

2) if so, for those routes where the platform length limits trains to

eight
carriages, will all current 6- and 8-car trains be replaced by 5-car

trains,
or can they operate 10-car trains where doors on the two rearmost

carriages
won't open at all stations?

AIUI they will operate on Charing Cross and Cannon Street services. All
platforms on these routes were extended to take 10-car trains in the 1950s,
and many were further extended to 12-car length in the abortive scheme of
the early 1990s. They will not normally operate on Victoria/Blackfriars
routes, where many suburban platforms can still only take 8-car trains.
There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.

Peter


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Old November 27th 04, 07:46 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

"Peter Masson" wrote in message


There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick









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Old November 27th 04, 11:22 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

Nick Lawford wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote in message



There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.



There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick









Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.
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Old November 28th 04, 11:37 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

James Looker wrote in message ...
Nick Lawford wrote:
"Peter Masson" wrote in message



There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.



There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick


Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.


No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.


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Old November 29th 04, 04:47 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

MIG wrote:
James Looker wrote in message ...

Nick Lawford wrote:

"Peter Masson" wrote in message




There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick



Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.



No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.


I seem to recall having heard talk that (somehow) these trains were to
be kept off longer distance trips such as beyond Dartford, and people
here (on both uk.railway and u.t.l) pointing out how dificult that would
be. Have TPTB finally given up the idea of keeping them off Gillingham
services and the like?

Robin

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Old November 29th 04, 08:43 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
S R S R is offline
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Default Class 376 deployment questions


I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.


My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced by
5-car trains.

S R


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Old November 30th 04, 07:23 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

R.C. Payne wrote:
MIG wrote:

James Looker wrote in message
...

Nick Lawford wrote:

"Peter Masson" wrote in message




There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from
any route.



There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short
platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick



Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been
down to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are
definetly getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.




No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.



I seem to recall having heard talk that (somehow) these trains were to
be kept off longer distance trips such as beyond Dartford, and people
here (on both uk.railway and u.t.l) pointing out how dificult that would
be. Have TPTB finally given up the idea of keeping them off Gillingham
services and the like?

Robin

They are diagrammed on the 17:46 from Cannon Street to Higham (Strood
when tunnel re-opens in January) every day at the moment - 2 x 5 cars.
The official line is that they will run to Gravesend in off-peak but may
be used on longer journeys to/from Gillingham in the peak (also
Orpington off-peak, Sevenoaks in Peak). In reality seats are likely to
become available at Dartford (Coastbound) or earlier if you walk through
the train (easier than most) and you will get a seat from longer out if
you are London bound - that is if you want one!.

Chris
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Old November 30th 04, 08:28 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ...
MIG wrote:
James Looker wrote in message ...

Nick Lawford wrote:

"Peter Masson" wrote in message




There won't be enough 376s to displace Networkers completely from any route.


There are more than enough to cover specific routes entirely.

36 units must be more than enough to cover a service such as Hayes or
Dartford via Greenwich (and excluding the obvious but silly answer of
Bromley North).

Surely both routes are entirely served from CS/CX so the short platforms
issue does not arise.

I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.

--
Nick



Bromley North has been using the new trains and they have also been down
to Orpington and Sevenoaks. The routes through Grove Park are definetly
getting all new Class 376 trains within the next year.



No one seems to have news of a drastic change in the diagrams that
would keep units on specific routes. That's why they can't be kept on
journeys they are best suited to. The are already doing some
"semi-fasts" via Woolwich and Lewisham.


I seem to recall having heard talk that (somehow) these trains were to
be kept off longer distance trips such as beyond Dartford, and people
here (on both uk.railway and u.t.l) pointing out how dificult that would
be. Have TPTB finally given up the idea of keeping them off Gillingham
services and the like?

Robin


Maybe there will be a drastic change in the diagrams when they are all
running, but I've certainly seen one doing Higham (would be
Gillingham) to Charing Cross. I've seen them on the Hayes and
Orpington lines, but it's hard to tell where they are going because,
surprise surprise, the indicators are usually switched off.
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Old November 30th 04, 08:37 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london
MIG MIG is offline
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Default Class 376 deployment questions

"S R" wrote in message ...
I can't see any reason why they'd diagram in such a way to be 376 only,
but it could be done in theory, which is why I assume the OP
asked the question.


My reason for asking was concern that routes limited by platform length to
8-car trains would see all their peak-period 6- and 8-car trains replaced by
5-car trains.

S R


I wouldn't be at all surprised. History shows a reduction in length
when new stock is introduced.

I guess we can take it that the introduction of five-car units is a
confirmation that we will never see the twelve-car trains for which
all those platforms were extended.

Maybe there has been an improvement in availability, but only in the
last couple of years has the peak-hour train length finally started to
increase (to a maximum of ten), after the general reduction in length
when the "Networkers" were introduced.

It was galling to have to stand in shorter trains when they were
introduced, having gone through all that disruption to extend the
platforms for the "longer Networker trains".

Soon after, some twelve-car slam-door trains on Ramsgate/Margate
services to Cannon Street were replaced by eight-car 365s. Did the
365s ever run in longer formations than that? I can't remember seeing
one.


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