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Trains carried on ships
Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their
passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? |
Trains carried on ships
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message m... Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? Yes you are correct. In 1990 I was on a train from Denmark to Sweden and instead of getting of the train to board the boat, they simply loaded the carriages onto the train, there were rails imbedded into the deck It took a while to chain the carriages down and it was a bit disconcerting to be sitting in a railway carriage that was going up and down as opposed to rocking from side to side. 1 person in my compartment didn't even realise we were on a boat, it was night time, and went to use the toilet, before the days of retention tanks. It was a very smooth operation and a very strange experience |
Trains carried on ships
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message m... Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? Freight used to be handled this way from several ports, uncluding Harwich and Dover. The only passenger service to taken across by ship was the Night Ferry, which ceased in 1980. I did the trip and photographed the process about a month before it ceased. Handling was very smooth: I slept (sober) through the handling at Dover on the return trip only waking up half-way back to London (Victoria). |
Trains carried on ships
For passengers, as far as I know, only the "Night Ferry", between Victoria and
Paris actually did this, via Folkestone. There was a freight-only equivalent via Harwich at one time. The equipment used in both ports was a leftover from World War One equipment installed to supply the troops! There may have been others, but I am unaware of any. The 1950s BTF film "Link Span" is a wonderful documentary showing just how this operated. Marc. |
Trains carried on ships
Troy Steadman wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:
Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? There was indeed - the "Golden Arrow" ran from London to Paris overnight, via Dunkerque. Only first-class passengers (I think I am right in saying) remained on the trains; the others had to get off. This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students, and used by many of my contemporaries as a cheap way of travelling between the two capitals. But the train service was considered the last word in luxury when it was inaugurated. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships
I think there's still a route between Germany and Denmark that does this
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Trains carried on ships
wrote in message ups.com... I think there's still a route between Germany and Denmark that does this There is. Between Puttgarten and Roedby on the Hamburg to Copenhagen route. You can stay on the train, or can go into the ship. Also there's an overnight Malmo (swe) to Berlin (de) service that travels on the ferry between Malmo and Sassnitz. Didn't get much sleep that night. The coaches used to be Deutsche Reichsbahn couchettes, which seemingly hadn't changed much since the days of the Iron Curtain, plus the rail deck was in the bowels of the ship. not far from the engine room. |
Trains carried on ships
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message m... Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? Still happens today. There's a regular service between Denmark & Germany where diesel trains leave Copenhagen & the same train continues to Hamburg (and possibly further) with a sea journey as part of the trip. CW |
Trains carried on ships
"Troy Steadman" wrote in message m... Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? See link & third picture down http://www.scandlines.de/en/infocent...ategory3-1.htm |
Trains carried on ships
"Tim Christian" wrote in message ... The only passenger service to taken across by ship was the Night Ferry, which ceased in 1980. I did the trip and photographed the process about a month before it ceased. Handling was very smooth: I slept (sober) through the handling at Dover on the return trip only waking up half-way back to London (Victoria). There was one night in, IIRC, 1967 or 1968 when there was heavy rain and flooding in Kent, and each route the train took was blocked and it had to turn back. Passengers expecting to wake up on the way in to Paris woke up at Gravesend. In the 1960s this was a very heavy train, loading up to 17 vehicles, though only the wagons-lits and fourgons (vans for registered baggage) went across on the ferry. Wagons-lit passengers went through customs formalities at Victoria, though seated passengers went through customs at Dover. The gangway door between the two parts of the train had to be firmly locked. Peter |
Trains carried on ships
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... There was indeed - the "Golden Arrow" ran from London to Paris overnight, via Dunkerque. Only first-class passengers (I think I am right in saying) remained on the trains; the others had to get off. This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students, and used by many of my contemporaries as a cheap way of travelling between the two capitals. But the train service was considered the last word in luxury when it was inaugurated. The 'Golden Arrow' was a day service, usually via Dover-Calais. The train did not go across. In its later years, the Golden Arrow was First Class Pullman plus second class ordinary coaches. The 'Night Ferry' (Dover-Dunkerque) used blue 'Wagons-Lits' - quite an unusual sight for commuters waiting at Orpington or Bromley South. The wagons-lits were indeed first class only, although there were both single berth and twin berth compartments. Peter |
Trains carried on ships
In message , Mrs Redboots
writes Troy Steadman wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004: Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? There was indeed - the "Golden Arrow" ran from London to Paris overnight, via Dunkerque. Only first-class passengers (I think I am right in saying) remained on the trains; the others had to get off. Not quite correct. The Golden Arrow was the day-time service via Dover-Calais. The traditional departure time was 11.00am, arriving in Paris soon after 5.00pm. There were separate trains either side of the channel, connecting with the SS Canterbury, but carriages were not taken on board the ferry for this service. This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students, That was a different service, and was indeed the one on which passengers could stay in their cabins for the channel crossing - and this was the one that used the Dover-Dunkerque (rather than Calais) route. Traditionally leaving Victoria at 8.00pm and arriving in two sections (one to Brussels the other to Paris) at 9.00am the next morning. and used by many of my contemporaries as a cheap way of travelling between the two capitals. But the train service was considered the last word in luxury when it was inaugurated. Indeed, the Golden Arrow was all-Pullman when it started, and some of the restored carriages are still in use today on the UK part of the Orient Express. The Night Ferry included Wagon-Lits and ordinary (non-Pullman) coaching stock, and wasn't quite so palatial. The OP should note that the *train* didn't actually drive onto the ferry - only the sleeping cars and luggage van(s) crossed the channel. They were detached at the port station and then shunted on/off the ferry at either end. -- Paul Terry |
Trains carried on ships
Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:
The 'Golden Arrow' was a day service, usually via Dover-Calais. The train did not go across. In its later years, the Golden Arrow was First Class Pullman plus second class ordinary coaches. Oh? I stand corrected. The 'Night Ferry' (Dover-Dunkerque) used blue 'Wagons-Lits' - quite an unusual sight for commuters waiting at Orpington or Bromley South. The wagons-lits were indeed first class only, although there were both single berth and twin berth compartments. The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but most students thought it worth it! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
... The OP should note that the *train* didn't actually drive onto the ferry Apologies, but for some reason this conjured up visions (bearing in mind that the train might have come from Victoria behind one of the E5000 electric locomotives) of a third-rail equipped train deck on the ship - perhaps a good idea too far. Regards Jonathan |
Trains carried on ships
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but most students thought it worth it! To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more uncomfortable. Peter |
Trains carried on ships
"Paul Terry" wrote in message ... This was the "Night Ferry" service beloved of generations of students, That was a different service, and was indeed the one on which passengers could stay in their cabins for the channel crossing - and this was the one that used the Dover-Dunkerque (rather than Calais) route. Traditionally leaving Victoria at 8.00pm and arriving in two sections (one to Brussels the other to Paris) at 9.00am the next morning. It actually left Victoria at 10.00 pm (9.00 pm during GMT). The up train was booked to leave Dover at 7.20 am and run via Chatham and Catford. More often than not it ran in its late path, 8.10 am from Dover via Tonbridge and Kent House, arriving Victoria 9.38 am. Commuters whose train was routed into platform 1 at Victoria used to curse it, as they had to leave by the side gate into Hudson Place, making for a long walk round to the Underground. Peter |
Trains carried on ships
"Peter Masson" wrote in message
... "Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but most students thought it worth it! To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more uncomfortable. It certainly was. That was the last time I was seasick :-( After that, changing at Port Bou at stupid o'clock the next morning en route to Barcelona was just fine, thanks. Regards Jonathan |
Trains carried on ships
Soemthing i discovered when looking on the web for something else today:
I had seen the train ferrys in Denmark for the services to Copenhagan (is the railway section of the bridge complete yet?) when on holiday in the early 90s. I had often been confused when in material on the tay bridge disaster the train was either reffered to as a Burntisland to Dundee Mail train or as an Edinburgh to Dundee train. What I didn't know was that as well as hes fatally flawed Tay Bridge he also developed along with other sturdier bridges (which is what i was lookngi for and found nothing) the Cassions used in contruction and Train Ferrys for getting passengers from Edinburgh over the forth to Burntisland. "Troy Steadman" wrote in message m... Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? |
Trains carried on ships
Theres three routes in Europe that still use train ferries:
Puttgarden-Raedby between Germany and Denmark. All Hamburg-Copenhagen EuroCitys use this route. The Train justs get driven on to the deck and then driven off at the other end and shares the deck with other cars and lorries, if you want you can get of the train and use the facilities on the ferry or just wonder about the deck, its quite a novelty seeing a train sat next to an HGV on a ferry deck. See:http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/...-5092/P1010192 ..jpg & http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/dk/...92/dsb5285.jpg Villa San Giovanni-Messina between Italy and Sicilia. All through trains from the Italian mainland to Sicilia use this route, your shunted in and out of the ship on to the rail deck and you have to remain on the train for this one. See: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/it/misc/ferry/pix.html And finally from Trelleborg-Sassnitz between Sweden and Germany, used by the nightly Berlin Night Express. Dont know much abut this one. |
Trains carried on ships
"Peter Masson" wrote in message
... There was one night in, IIRC, 1967 or 1968 when there was heavy rain and flooding in Kent, and each route the train took was blocked and it had to turn back. Passengers expecting to wake up on the way in to Paris woke up at Gravesend. It was in October 1968. I was in digs in Crawley and had a very dodgy journey back on the Sunday night in question. Hever Castle was flooded IIRC. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Trains carried on ships
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:10:19 +0000 (UTC), "Boogaloo"
wrote: snip Villa San Giovanni-Messina between Italy and Sicilia. All through trains from the Italian mainland to Sicilia use this route, your shunted in and out of the ship on to the rail deck and you have to remain on the train for this one. Not true. You can get out and visit the bar, or stand at the railings and watch the sun set over Sicily, as I did about 3 months ago. See: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/it/misc/ferry/pix.html -- Regards Mike mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
In article , Troy Steadman
wrote: Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? When the channel tunnel was started, that thoroughly commercial organisation, British Railways, started a programme of bringing goods waggons into this country by ship to build up traffic for when the tunnel opened. The tunnel took longer to build than planned, so this built up to quite a traffic; I saw a lot of Italian goods vehicles in Luton. But BR didn't live to harvest the fruits of its labours - and were there any? It's ironical to remember how the pundits said that the building of the channel tunnel would bring vast traffic and make British Railways safe. But as I understand it, goods traffic, like passenger traffic, has been disappointing. It's strange how things turn out, not the opposite of what was expected, but at a slant that makes the forecasts and their negations both irrelevant. Michael Bell -- |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:05:54 +0000, Michael Bell
wrote: In article , Troy Steadman wrote: Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? When the channel tunnel was started, that thoroughly commercial organisation, British Railways, started a programme of bringing goods waggons into this country by ship to build up traffic for when the tunnel opened. The tunnel took longer to build than planned, so this built up to quite a traffic; Sorry Michael, but that's nonsense. Train ferries were in use for the transport of goods long before British Railways came into existence. They only ceased when the Channel Tunnel opened, finally robbing them of their reason for existence. You might wish to read George Behrend's and Gary Buchanan's excellent book "Night Ferry" ; a superb account of the history of these services. I saw a lot of Italian goods vehicles in Luton. But BR didn't live to harvest the fruits of its labours - and were there any? It's ironical to remember how the pundits said that the building of the channel tunnel would bring vast traffic and make British Railways safe. But as I understand it, goods traffic, like passenger traffic, has been disappointing. It's strange how things turn out, not the opposite of what was expected, but at a slant that makes the forecasts and their negations both irrelevant. The train ferry services and railway-owned container ships were carrying about 3.2 million tonnes of freight a year before the Channel Tunnel opened. I understand the current figure for Channel Tunnel is about 1 million tonnes. It was substantially more, but the problem with illegal immigrants cost the railways a lot of business. The cost of using the Channel Tunnel has put off a lot of potential business too, IMO. -- Regards Mike mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet |
Trains carried on ships
Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... The hoi polloi had to change trains, and got very little sleep - but most students thought it worth it! To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more uncomfortable. It was certainly vile - I used to use it as Newhaven is nearer where my parents live. Remember the "Valençay", the "Villandry" and the "Senlac", which were the ferries that plied the route in the 1970s. I don't know whether it was cheaper - most of my friends did the "Night Ferry" thing if they were going to London. Most of the time, because I was working and could afford to pay slightly more, I flew with the "Silver Arrow" service from Le Touquet - one got a train from Paris to Le Touquet, and then a plane to Gatwick, from where I could easily catch a direct train down to the south coast. Once in a blue moon I'd fly direct from - well, it must have been Orly in those days, or even Le Bourget, since Charles-de-Gaulle only opened my last year in Paris (I did fly from there once, just so I could say I had!). -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships
Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004:
It actually left Victoria at 10.00 pm (9.00 pm during GMT). The up train was booked to leave Dover at 7.20 am and run via Chatham and Catford. More often than not it ran in its late path, 8.10 am from Dover via Tonbridge and Kent House, arriving Victoria 9.38 am. Commuters whose train was routed into platform 1 at Victoria used to curse it, as they had to leave by the side gate into Hudson Place, making for a long walk round to the Underground. I thought that back then platform 1 was reserved for Channel trains, as there were customs facilities? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
Michael Bell wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004:
When the channel tunnel was started, that thoroughly commercial organisation, British Railways, started a programme of bringing goods waggons into this country by ship to build up traffic for when the tunnel opened. The tunnel took longer to build than planned, so this built up to quite a traffic; I saw a lot of Italian goods vehicles in Luton. But BR didn't live to harvest the fruits of its labours - and were there any? Oh, I think so! I had a ten-minute wait at Denmark Hill the other day, changing trains, and there must have been at least 2 goods trains in either direction, including a huge car-train. You never used to see them at all, and now it's almost rare not to! It's ironical to remember how the pundits said that the building of the channel tunnel would bring vast traffic and make British Railways safe. But as I understand it, goods traffic, like passenger traffic, has been disappointing. It's strange how things turn out, not the opposite of what was expected, but at a slant that makes the forecasts and their negations both irrelevant. It may have been disappointing, but it certainly still exists! And I'm not sure how disappointing passenger traffic is, since they run the shuttle service every 20 minutes or thereabouts, and 4 passenger tph through the tunnel - which surely they wouldn't do by now if passenger levels didn't warrant it? -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
"Mike Roebuck" wrote in message ... On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:05:54 +0000, Michael Bell wrote: In article , Troy Steadman wrote: Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? When the channel tunnel was started, that thoroughly commercial organisation, British Railways, started a programme of bringing goods waggons into this country by ship to build up traffic for when the tunnel opened. The tunnel took longer to build than planned, so this built up to quite a traffic; Sorry Michael, but that's nonsense. Train ferries were in use for the transport of goods long before British Railways came into existence. They only ceased when the Channel Tunnel opened, finally robbing them of their reason for existence. You might wish to read George Behrend's and Gary Buchanan's excellent book "Night Ferry" ; a superb account of the history of these services. I saw a lot of Italian goods vehicles in Luton. But BR didn't live to harvest the fruits of its labours - and were there any? It's ironical to remember how the pundits said that the building of the channel tunnel would bring vast traffic and make British Railways safe. But as I understand it, goods traffic, like passenger traffic, has been disappointing. It's strange how things turn out, not the opposite of what was expected, but at a slant that makes the forecasts and their negations both irrelevant. The train ferry services and railway-owned container ships were carrying about 3.2 million tonnes of freight a year before the Channel Tunnel opened. I understand the current figure for Channel Tunnel is about 1 million tonnes. It was substantially more, but the problem with illegal immigrants cost the railways a lot of business. The cost of using the Channel Tunnel has put off a lot of potential business too, IMO. -- Regards Mike mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet It's heading towards the million and a half tonne mark now, I believe. Just looking at the tonnage figures gives an understated view of the level of traffic carried- some of the longest-serving trains carry relatively low-density products, so that the Ford Dagenham - Silla train (which has been loading 40+ boxes per day per direction) only GROSSES about 1100t, suggesting a load of about half that. Likewise, the car trains are 750m long, but probably load about 400t maximum. The stowaway problem dented things very badly, but subsequently the continuing labour-relations problems at SNCF have also caused the loss of a lot of container traffic, which takes the short-sea route to Belgium and then goes forward by rail to Italy. Brian |
Trains carried on ships
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... I thought that back then platform 1 was reserved for Channel trains, as there were customs facilities? The Night Ferry used platform 2, because it was long enough and because it had access to the customs and immigration offices. Platform 2 was also used for Royal Trains - State Visits often came in to Gatwick, and the visting Heads of States were conveyed to Victoria by Royal Train, and then taken in a carriage procession to Buckingham Palace. Also used for the Royal Train to Tattenham Corner on Derby Day. Platform 1 could be closed off from platform 2 by the folding gates along the length of the platform. It was certainly used for commuter trains after the 1967 timetable alterations. Peter |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:30:06 +0000, Mike Roebuck
wrote: about 1 million tonnes. It was substantially more, but the problem with illegal immigrants cost the railways a lot of business. The cost of using the Channel Tunnel has put off a lot of potential business too, IMO. There is also the problem of having to travel through France, which isn't exactly part of the brave new world of open access operators leasing Class 66s and trying to grow the railfreight market. Recently there was some fairly serious(?) talk of starting a Belgium - UK train ferry, so that rail operators wouldn't have to deal with SNCF and the French unions. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
... It may have been disappointing, but it certainly still exists! And I'm not sure how disappointing passenger traffic is, since they run the shuttle service every 20 minutes or thereabouts, and 4 passenger tph through the tunnel - which surely they wouldn't do by now if passenger levels didn't warrant it? I see that Eurotunnel are reducing the number of lorry shuttles considerably, as the increased charges are driving many operators back to the ferries. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Trains carried on ships
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
... Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sat, 18 Dec 2004: To Paris the Newhaven - Dieppe route was cheaper, and probably more uncomfortable. It was certainly vile - I used to use it as Newhaven is nearer where my parents live. Remember the "Valençay", the "Villandry" and the "Senlac", which were the ferries that plied the route in the 1970s. As Newhaven is only 25-30 minutes by car from us, the Senlac was a pleasant way to start a continental trip. Lunch on board, with traditional service, allowed one to spend the four hours in reasonable comfort. The SNCF ships, on the other hand, were a waste of time, with very poor food and indifferent service. Not at all what one might have expected. I've been once by Jetfoil, with Macdonalds the summit of culinary offerings. Returning to one's seat with a tray full of food on a rough day is not recommended. I've found it as quick to drive to Dover, take P&O and have breakfast or lunch in Langan's Brasserie, and drive down the Autoroute towards Rouen in recent years, when visiting glass works in the valley of the Bresle. -- Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society 75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm E-mail: URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/ |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
In article , Arthur Figgis
wrote: [snip] Recently there was some fairly serious(?) talk of starting a Belgium - UK train ferry, so that rail operators wouldn't have to deal with SNCF and the French unions. That's really bad! Michael Bell -- |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... It may have been disappointing, but it certainly still exists! And I'm not sure how disappointing passenger traffic is, since they run the shuttle service every 20 minutes or thereabouts, and 4 passenger tph through the tunnel - which surely they wouldn't do by now if passenger levels didn't warrant it? I see that Eurotunnel are reducing the number of lorry shuttles considerably, as the increased charges are driving many operators back to the ferries. In other words, Eurotunnel aren't making enough money out of it. Who would have thought that ferries could beat a tunnel on price and speed? Michael Bell -- |
Trains carried on ships
In message , Terry Harper
writes As Newhaven is only 25-30 minutes by car from us, the Senlac was a pleasant way to start a continental trip. Lunch on board, with traditional service, allowed one to spend the four hours in reasonable comfort. The SNCF ships, on the other hand, were a waste of time, with very poor food and indifferent service. Not at all what one might have expected. I've been once by Jetfoil, with Macdonalds the summit of culinary offerings. Returning to one's seat with a tray full of food on a rough day is not recommended. I've found it as quick to drive to Dover, take P&O and have breakfast or lunch in Langan's Brasserie, and drive down the Autoroute towards Rouen in recent years, when visiting glass works in the valley of the Bresle. I can strongly recommend Sea France on the current Dover-Calais route (especially if you get their new, fast Rodin) - superb lunches with the freshest salad I've ever had, and excellent cuisine if you care to splash out for dinner. They also do extremely good day-return deals for booze-cruisers (20 to 26 quid for car + up to 9 passengers is the best I've seen). (Annabel's reminiscence of the Gatwick - Le Touquet hedgehopper rang a bell here - it was a good way to get to Paris in the '70s). -- Paul Terry |
Trains carried on ships
In article , Troy
Steadman writes Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their journey across Europe? There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the Night Ferry in c. 1970's - I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London Victoria It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as being French but built to UK loading gauge. The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons. In Europe they still exist in 2002 I used the Puttgarden (Germany to Rodby (Denmark) ferry a through Danish DMU service from Hamburg to Copenhagen. A 2nd Germany / Denmark ferry left the Danish port of Gedser also existed which ran to the Former East Germany, which was declared surplus following reunification Puttgarden to Rodby ferry is now less important following the Danish completion of the Storebelt Bridge/Tunnel between Korsor and Nyborg which linked the island of Zealand which hosts the Danish capital Copenhagen with rest of Denmark. This was completed c. late 1990's reducing Danish Inter-City Train journeys by about 1 hour. The night train and maybe some other trains from Germany to Copenhagen now takes this route AFAIK, before trains were conveyed by ferry (Trains and Passengers only no cars which had a separate ferry. IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history I think there may be still a few elsewhere in the world, but I have personally only used the above. In the case of the Puttgarden - Rodby ferry the Danish DMU is driven onto the ferry, (tracks on car deck) it is then shut down, although you could stay on the train if you wished, or alight and go up on deck, the train seemed to be treated like just another 'road' vehicle. I saw a train from Sweden unloading at Helsingor, and immediately behind the last carriage road vehicles started disembarking likewise. -- Alan Osborn |
Trains carried on ships
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 21:06:12 +0000 (GMT), David H Wild
wrote: In article , Mrs Redboots wrote: It actually left Victoria at 10.00 pm (9.00 pm during GMT). The up train was booked to leave Dover at 7.20 am and run via Chatham and Catford. More often than not it ran in its late path, 8.10 am from Dover via Tonbridge and Kent House, arriving Victoria 9.38 am. Commuters whose train was routed into platform 1 at Victoria used to curse it, as they had to leave by the side gate into Hudson Place, making for a long walk round to the Underground. I thought that back then platform 1 was reserved for Channel trains, as there were customs facilities? The Night Ferry was the only train using the customs facilities - certainly when I worked at Victoria in 1963. I got ticked off by a policeman at Victoria one evening in 1967 for checking the loco number on the up Golden Arrow after its arrival ( I had to dodge around the Customs barrier to do it - E50XX), so I don't think that's correct, sorry. -- Regards Mike mikedotroebuckatgmxdotnet |
Trains carried on ships
Terry Harper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004:
As Newhaven is only 25-30 minutes by car from us, the Senlac was a pleasant way to start a continental trip. Lunch on board, with traditional service, allowed one to spend the four hours in reasonable comfort. The SNCF ships, on the other hand, were a waste of time, with very poor food and indifferent service. I used to work for a man who was great friends with some of the staff on the French ships, so I always got great service on them! It took him some time to make friends with the people on the "Senlac", and I'd long since left to live in Paris by the time he did! Not at all what one might have expected. I've been once by Jetfoil, with Macdonalds the summit of culinary offerings. Returning to one's seat with a tray full of food on a rough day is not recommended. No way...... I've found it as quick to drive to Dover, take P&O and have breakfast or lunch in Langan's Brasserie, and drive down the Autoroute towards Rouen in recent years, when visiting glass works in the valley of the Bresle. The autoroute to Rouen is lovely, especially the "Aire de la Baie de Somme", where we always stop, whether we need to or not! Imagine people going to a service area in the UK if they didn't have to..... But these days we always take the tunnel. Quite honestly, early experiences on the Newhaven-Dieppe run have put me off ferries for life! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships
Peter Masson wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004:
The Night Ferry used platform 2, because it was long enough and because it had access to the customs and immigration offices. Platform 2 was also used for Royal Trains - State Visits often came in to Gatwick, and the visting Heads of States were conveyed to Victoria by Royal Train, and then taken in a carriage procession to Buckingham Palace. Also used for the Royal Train to Tattenham Corner on Derby Day. I think it still is used for Royal trains - I have certainly seen one at the platform within recent years, dropping off some international bigwig who had, presumably, arrived at Gatwick. Platform 1 could be closed off from platform 2 by the folding gates along the length of the platform. It was certainly used for commuter trains after the 1967 timetable alterations. As, indeed, it often is today! -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
Trains carried on ships -goods too!
Terry Harper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Dec 2004:
"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message ... It may have been disappointing, but it certainly still exists! And I'm not sure how disappointing passenger traffic is, since they run the shuttle service every 20 minutes or thereabouts, and 4 passenger tph through the tunnel - which surely they wouldn't do by now if passenger levels didn't warrant it? I see that Eurotunnel are reducing the number of lorry shuttles considerably, as the increased charges are driving many operators back to the ferries. Still a huge queue of lorries last time we went over a few weeks ago! But then, if they've cut back on lorry-trains, perhaps that's inevitable. -- "Mrs Redboots" http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/ Website updated 18 December 2004 |
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