Nick wrote:

London heritage??? We have been part of Kent for generations, and
only sucked into the Greater London experiment so the Tories could
take control of London government (well, mostly). I am sure the
overwhelming majority of residents in Bexley describe, and want to
describe themselves as living in Kent (me included). Maybe those of
us in metropolitan Kent will one day escape from the clutches of
central London and determine our own affairs without inteference.

I loathe Bexley being described as "south London", it really is NOT.
We are part of the Greater London administrative area, that's all,
for all other purposes we are people of Kent. I know "Londoners"
find this hard to believe, but many of us don't wanty to be part of
your high-density overpopulated sprawling urban gloom.

So... which is more reliable in determining where a place is located - a
postcode county system which isn't even required to be used by the Royal
Mail, or the county that administers the borough?

I mean, nobody seriously argues that Bordeaux is in the UK.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

"Epetruk" wrote in message
...
Nick wrote:

London heritage??? We have been part of Kent for generations, and
only sucked into the Greater London experiment so the Tories could
take control of London government (well, mostly). I am sure the
overwhelming majority of residents in Bexley describe, and want to
describe themselves as living in Kent (me included). Maybe those of
us in metropolitan Kent will one day escape from the clutches of
central London and determine our own affairs without inteference.

I loathe Bexley being described as "south London", it really is NOT.
We are part of the Greater London administrative area, that's all,
for all other purposes we are people of Kent. I know "Londoners"
find this hard to believe, but many of us don't wanty to be part of
your high-density overpopulated sprawling urban gloom.

So... which is more reliable in determining where a place is located - a
postcode county system which isn't even required to be used by the Royal
Mail, or the county that administers the borough?

I mean, nobody seriously argues that Bordeaux is in the UK.

Postal counties are pretty well established, based largely on administrative
counties of some decades past. People, not surprisingly, quote where they
live as where they are addressed, hence people in Bexley say they live in
Kent as that's what they usually quote as their address.

Describing locations by administrative areas, particularly as they seem to
change so relatively frequently in the UK, makes no sense to me, though this
seems increasingly common.

Plus, I don't understand why the "Greater" is being lost from "Greater
London". Greater London, to me, means real London plus lots of fringe areas
that aren't really "London" but close enough to be administered by it.
However, organisations such as BBC London appear to ban the phrase unless
it's in a name of an actual body, eg the GLA.

Nick
Bexley, Kent

wrote in message
ups.com...
I think this is one of those debates that's often characterized as an
either/or thing, when it really needn't be.

I grew up in Romford, another town that's been swallowed by greater
London. As anyone who's ever been to Romford will know, it's not
exactly devoid of Essex identity, and I suspect that most residents
would claim they live in Essex. (This includes the local MP who for no
reason other than a hatred of Ken Livingstone, as far as I can tell,
wants the London Borough of Havering to cede from the GLA).

However, it also shares features elements of cultural identity with
East London generally in a way that, say, Basildon doesn't. Moreover,
in a practical sense, thigs like transport are better planned from City
Hall than from Chelmsford, as more people will want to travel around
the conurbation than out into Essex.

I don't see any contradiction there. Romford is a suburb of London in
Essex, in the same way that Bexley is a suburb of London in Kent, and
Wood Green is a suburb of London in Middlesex.

I agree with all that, and I'm sure this approach would keep everyone happy
(other than the London Emporeor, sorry Mayor, who wants "London" to expand
another 10 miles in all directions and banish all county names forever ;-))

Nick

"Nick" wrote in message
...

However, organisations such as BBC London appear to ban the phrase unless
it's in a name of an actual body, eg the GLA.


What BBC London do geographically is pretty meaningless.

They cannot even manage to match their own news coverage area to the TV
transmitters they use. There are a number of areas who cannot receive any
other BBC local TV news service, but whose local news is transmitted by
another region. They can only get a BBC local news service if they choose
to have satellite.

Postal counties are pretty well established, based largely on
administrative
counties of some decades past. People, not surprisingly, quote where they
live as where they are addressed, hence people in Bexley say they live in
Kent as that's what they usually quote as their address.

Indeed, and there are other variations. Edmonton has had a London postcode
since the mid-1800s, about thirty years before it came under the control of
Middlesex County Council, and about century before it was ever controlled
by any London administrative body. Some other parts of the London Borough
Of Enfield still have Middlesex in the postal address despite having a
similar history.

Post is really based on Post Towns and the Post Code. The county you see on
your postal address may well be that of the post town rather than your own
town. Your postal address can include a county that your town has never
been part of geographically or administratively.

Describing locations by administrative areas, particularly as they seem to
change so relatively frequently in the UK, makes no sense to me, though
this
seems increasingly common.

Absolutely, and it is not helped by the Ordnance Survey using administrative
boundaries on their maps.

http://www.abcounties.co.uk/ gives a good background to all this sort of
thing.

Plus, I don't understand why the "Greater" is being lost from "Greater
London". Greater London, to me, means real London plus lots of fringe
areas
that aren't really "London" but close enough to be administered by it.
However, organisations such as BBC London appear to ban the phrase unless
it's in a name of an actual body, eg the GLA.

When we had the GLC the term 'Greater London' did seem to be used a lot
more, though that has never been part of any postal addresses. Now we have
Greater London Authority the term is just as well defined, but we only
really hear mention of the Mayor Of London and the London Assembly that
comprise it.

"Nick" wrote in message
...

I loathe Bexley being described as "south London",
it really is NOT. We are part of the Greater London
administrative area, that's all, for all other
purposes we are people of Kent.

Kentish people, surely...

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Incidentally, there are several "Welcome to Middlesex" signs where you cross
from Barnet LB to Enfield LB. I thought these were old, but I have been
subsequently informed that they were put up by Enfield Council in the last
ten years, after the Middlesex enthusiasts managed to convince them that
even though Middlesex was no longer an adminstrative entity, it still
existed.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , Nick
writes
I know "Londoners" find this hard to believe, but many of us don't
wanty to be part of your high-density overpopulated sprawling urban
gloom.

But people there are probably happy with their co-ordinated public
transport and - when the time comes - Freedom Passes?

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Henry" wrote in message
...
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...

Are you suggesting the Royal Mail is wrong? As far as I'm aware Bexley
has
always been in Kent, it's only the grasping of London suburbia that has
caused Bexley to become attached to the metropolis.


It is the same all around London.

Bromley, Croydon, Mitcham, Sutton and Kingston coming to immediate mind as
examples in South London.


Quite, and Uxbridge, Rickmansworth, Ruislip, Enfield etc. I suspect that
anything inside the M25 will soon be "London" and anything outside will be
out in the sticks

"Nick" wrote in message
...
inteference.

I loathe Bexley being described as "south London", it really is NOT. We
are part of the Greater London administrative area, that's all, for all
other purposes we are people of Kent. I know "Londoners" find this hard
to believe, but many of us don't wanty to be part of your high-density
overpopulated sprawling urban gloom.


Independence for Bexley? What would Ted Heath say?