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Old May 28th 04, 01:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?



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Old May 28th 04, 02:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

"Rajesh Kakad (BT)" wrote in message
...
Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Some might say that a certain newt-collecting person who holds a mayoral
post in London might actually *want* the traffic to remain stationary for
longer so as to deter people from driving in London ;-)


In general I'd say that a turn-left-on-red rule would probably work quite
well. But to be effective, it would require a separate lane for
left-turners - otherwise the person in front of you who wants to go straight
on would prevent you getting past him to turn left. It would need a massive
programme of re-education, not just of drivers but also of pedestrians and
cyclists. Maybe it should only apply to junctions with a left filter, where
the left lane sees one of two aspects: flashing amber (while straight ahead
traffic has red, to warn you that you must still give way to traffic from
your right and to pedestrians) and green (in sync with the green lights for
straight-ahead traffic).

Possibly more urgent is to upgrade traffic lights to have a phase for
right-turning traffic: I've sat for ages at lights which only let one
vehicle turn right for each cycle of the lights because there is an
infinitesimally small time between the lights turning green to let you onto
the junction and the oncoming traffic starting to move, blocking your right
turn. I remember that there was a set of lights like this near Feltham, on
the route that the Heathrow Airport to Feltham Station bus used: it would
have been quicker to have got off the bus as it first stopped in the queue
and walked the last few hundred yards to the station :-(


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Old May 28th 04, 03:17 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

Rajesh Kakad (BT) wrote:
Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where
they can turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have
priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get
traffic moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Even if there is a separate lane for left-turning traffic, which often
there isn't room for in London, a left-turning driver would have poor
visibility of conflicting traffic if a bus or truck is waiting in the
adjacent lane at the lights.

As a way of improving junction capacity, I prefer the French system
(Parisian, anyway) of giving pedestrians priority over turning vehicles.
At a cross-roads where north-south and east-west roads meet, when
north-south traffic has green signals, the 'green man' is displayed for
pedestrians crossing the east-west roads, and traffic turning into those
roads has to give way to them. I'm sure the HSE would have a fit, but
it does seem to work. The great advantage is that there is no need to
halt all traffic for a pedestrian-only phase.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

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Old May 28th 04, 03:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to cross

anymore ideas?

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
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Old May 28th 04, 09:03 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED



also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending

to cross

anymore ideas?


In the USA they often turnoff traffic lights at night. When off one
direction flashes yellow - that's the major road. The other
direction flashes red - flashing red means the same as a "stop" sign.

Jeremy Parker




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Old May 28th 04, 09:27 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

"gs" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to

cross

anymore ideas?

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/


FWIW, here in the States there was quite a controversy when the idea was
first floated for Right Turn on Red. The nay-sayers complained of the
hundreds of thousands of pedestrians that would perish. There was, in fact,
quite a learning curve (no pun intended) and there were some tragic crashes
at first, but all-in-all it seems to work just fine now. As for a dedicated
right turn lane (left in the UK), while we do have some, the bulk of
intersections have none. Therefore if car #1 goes straight and car #2 wants
to turn, car #2 waits for the traffic signal to change. What would really
help here in the USA is British style roundabouts. I love driving in your
country because the roundabouts at least keep traffic somewhat flowing as
opposed to what someone else in this thread said about waiting for signals
to change when not a cross traffic or pedestrian is in sight. BTW, if we
want to turn left (in the USA) on to a one-way street that only goes to the
left and we are also on a one-way street, we can legally turn left.

Rich


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Old May 28th 04, 10:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

In article , Jeremy Parker
writes


also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending

to cross

anymore ideas?


In the USA they often turnoff traffic lights at night. When off one
direction flashes yellow - that's the major road. The other
direction flashes red - flashing red means the same as a "stop" sign.

Jeremy Parker


Also done in some areas of Switzerland.

In Eastern Germany, at certain sets of lights, a sign exists permitting
you to turn right when the light is at red if the road is clear of other
traffic. Seems to work OK - it's a hang over from the days of Communist
East Germany.
--
Andrew
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communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.
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Old May 29th 04, 01:20 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

Andrew Smith writes:
In Eastern Germany, at certain sets of lights, a sign exists permitting
you to turn right when the light is at red if the road is clear of other
traffic. ...


A textual sign, or graphical? I find it hard to imagine the icon for that.

In the US, intersections where you must *not* turn right on red (except in
New York, where by municipal law the default is reversed) are marked with
textual signs, NO TURN ON RED or similar wording. We used to have the
same here, but now a no-right-turn icon is placed beside an icon of a traffic
light with the red lit, and you're supposed to figure out for yourself that
a preposition or conjunction connecting the two signs is implied.

By the way, for those who have never experienced it, the North American
right-on-red does require the driver to stop first, and wait for all
conflicting traffic. In other words, here a red light is equivalent to
a stop sign if you're making a right turn. (And dishonored about as much.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Keep out of eyes--if this occurs, rinse with water.
| (Directions seen on shampoo bottle)

My text in this article is in the public domain.
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Old May 29th 04, 01:31 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

"Rich":
BTW, if we want to turn left (in the USA) on to a one-way street that
only goes to the left and we are also on a one-way street, we can
legally turn left.


He means on red, of course. Otherwise it wouldn't be interesting.

That is the usual rule in North America, but there is some variation
between states and provinces. A few don't allow this, while a few
allow left-on-red as long as you're turning *into* a one-way street
(left and right turns into the same street would go into different
lanes unless the one-way street was too narrow, so there's no conflict
with converging traffic); or as long as you're turning *from* a one-way
street. See e.g. http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/signals.html.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto cat/dev/null got your tongue?
-- Jutta Degener

My text in this article is in the public domain.
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Old May 29th 04, 07:22 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Reduce Traffic - Turn left on a RED

"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message
...

In the USA they often turnoff traffic lights at night.
When off one direction flashes yellow - that's the
major road. The other direction flashes red -
flashing red means the same as a "stop" sign.


So what's the difference between a flashing yellow and a solid green?

Incidentally, since the average life span of a traffic light bulb here is
about none months, I would imagine that the life of these flashing bulbs
must be a few weeks, unless they always use LEDs in them.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that dead traffic light bulbs have become very
common recently in London?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes




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