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[email protected] · January 20th 05, 08:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london

wrote:

Looking at that now, 15 million is probably a bit of an exagerration;
but it's certainly well over 10 million, I think more than 12
million.
That's still more than Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool and Birmingham
combined.

I think it accurate enough to say that 15 million people either live
within the M25, or are in a family where the major source of income is
from London.

Capital cities are big because governments want them to be,
think how
Ankara grew from a small town to a metropolis when it was made the
Turkish
capital, how Moscow grew when it became capital after St Petersburg.

And how Bonn became the domiant city in Germany, and Washington DC in
the USA, and Canberra in Australia. Canberra is a good example of a
"Government city" and it's important, but nothing like Sydney.

snip

Relocating economic activity from London to elsewhere would cost a
fortune.

I'm not asking for that. I am simply asking for conditions to be
created which allow the North to flourish. For the North not be held
back.
The Manchester airport affair is simply the best documented example
of
it.

Manchester is getting runway 2, even though London is far more
desperate for runway space. London is still waiting for CrossRail!

There must be plenty of others.

But there are also examples of London being held back - the lack of
Crossrail after more than 20 years is a major example. I don't think
the pattern you identify is a prejudice against the north, I think
it's
a systematic underinvestment that has dogged this country since at
least the 1970s.

as far as Government spending goes, the north receives more
infrastructure investment than the South East. That's why the south
East has the worst congestion and the longest commute times.

I'm glad you agree that "It would be fine". But actually, all I am
suggesting
is that Birmingham - Manchester - Leeds be made EFFECTIVELY "one
city"
by
high-speed links. It is quite crazy that the links between them are
judged
and prioritised "cross-country".

That won't make them one city, and they still won't be as convenient
to
do business in as London, high speed links or not.

But it's a nice idea. Who would pay? Though birmingham is a bit far
from the others, a high speed S-Bahn linking Liverpool with Leeds, with
a hub at Manchester might be a nice idea.

Michael Bell · January 20th 05, 11:42 AM posted to uk.transport.london

In article .com,
wrote:
wrote:
[snip]
I'm glad you agree that "It would be fine". But actually, all I am
suggesting
is that Birmingham - Manchester - Leeds be made EFFECTIVELY "one
city"
by
high-speed links. It is quite crazy that the links between them are
judged
and prioritised "cross-country".

That won't make them one city, and they still won't be as convenient
to
do business in as London, high speed links or not.

But it's a nice idea. Who would pay? Though birmingham is a bit far
from the others, a high speed S-Bahn linking Liverpool with Leeds, with
a hub at Manchester might be a nice idea.

It is CHEAPER to build NEW railways than to upgrade old ones. That is largely
because of the interruption to work caused by the need to keep trains
running. There is a down side of course: new railways are fine and dandy, but
in time they become old railways and even though the gap between the tracks
is wider to allow work on one track while still allowing traffic on the
other, there still has to be some connection with the old railway system to
allow for maintenance. The idea is that they are all strung together on the
same track which can be done, without largely separate routes, eg London-
Birmingham, London - Manchester, London - Anywhere, then you can shorten the
mileage of track to be built considerably, and with so much traffic
concentrated on one route, you justify spending a lot of money getting it
good, and providing good connections BETWEEN them, which the current layout
lamentably fails to do.

Michael Bell

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