Barking-Greenford?
 

"John Salmon" wrote in message
...

"Jack Taylor" wrote
At West Ruislip the centre road is an
up through line (although, IIRC, it is bi-directionally signalled ...

Not according to Quail.

Thx for that. I wasn't entirely sure and haven't got a Quail to refer to.
Actually, now I think about it, I should have looked at my LNW Periodical
Operating Notices.

Barking-Greenford?
 

"John Salmon" wrote in message
...

"Jack Taylor" wrote
At West Ruislip the centre road is an
up through line (although, IIRC, it is bi-directionally signalled ...

Not according to Quail.

If a stopping train is let out of Marylebone in front of a fast, the first
opportunity for the fast to overtake is Princes Risborough. In the up
direction there are overtaking opportunities at High Wycombe (where the down
platform line is reversibly signalled), and at West Ruislip (using the Up
Platfrom Loop).

Peter

Barking-Greenford?
 

Peter Masson wrote:

If a stopping train is let out of Marylebone in front of a fast,
the first opportunity for the fast to overtake is Princes Risborough.
In the up direction there are overtaking opportunities at High
Wycombe (where the down platform line is reversibly signalled), and
at West Ruislip (using the Up Platfrom Loop).

This is one of the reasons why the restoration of the through roads at
Beaconsfield and the down platform loop at West Ruislip was
investigated; this would have provided additional passing places on the
Chiltern route south of Aynho Junction. Unfortunately, Chiltern has
since found that adding such infrastructure is not necessary, and have
instead chosen to thoroughly resignal the route north of High Wycombe
and provide bidirectional signalling on both roads between Princes
Risborough and Bicester North.

Barking-Greenford?
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
Peter Masson wrote:

If a stopping train is let out of Marylebone in front of a fast,
the first opportunity for the fast to overtake is Princes Risborough.
In the up direction there are overtaking opportunities at High
Wycombe (where the down platform line is reversibly signalled), and
at West Ruislip (using the Up Platfrom Loop).


This is one of the reasons why the restoration of the through roads at
Beaconsfield and the down platform loop at West Ruislip was
investigated; this would have provided additional passing places on the
Chiltern route south of Aynho Junction. Unfortunately, Chiltern has
since found that adding such infrastructure is not necessary, and have
instead chosen to thoroughly resignal the route north of High Wycombe
and provide bidirectional signalling on both roads between Princes
Risborough and Bicester North.

Where did the fourth track originally fit through West Ruislip? The
present station layout only permits three between the two current
Chiltern platforms.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Barking-Greenford?
 

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Where did the fourth track originally fit through West Ruislip? The
present station layout only permits three between the two current
Chiltern platforms.

The down platform has been built out over the site of the former down slow.
The original platform was very narrow.

Peter

Barking-Greenford?
 

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Also, frequency is the central point of John's criticism -
more trains should stop at these stations, then the fast
journey to London wouldn't be crippled by aeons-long waits!
I don't know much about the Chiltern services, but i should
imagine there are enough trains that you could get
4 or even 6 tph at these stations.

Really don't think there is any demand - 12tph total to
the Sudbury area would probably be a gross oversupply.

It isn't about supplying the Sudbury area, it's about interchange!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Barking-Greenford?
 

John Rowland wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Also, frequency is the central point of John's criticism -
more trains should stop at these stations, then the fast
journey to London wouldn't be crippled by aeons-long waits!
I don't know much about the Chiltern services, but i should
imagine there are enough trains that you could get
4 or even 6 tph at these stations.

Really don't think there is any demand - 12tph total to
the Sudbury area would probably be a gross oversupply.


It isn't about supplying the Sudbury area, it's about interchange!

The demand for interchange at the Ruislips is pretty low, and I reckon
demand at Sudbury is even lower. How is the expense of frequent
inner-suburban trains on Chiltern justified to meet such a low demand?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Barking-Greenford?
 

Another hare-brained scheme
Build a dual tunnel from Limehouse to Marylebone, get rid of the
Renwick Road (Barking) and the Canary Wharf Northern Access traffic
lights (pretty pointless), and also grade-separate Gypsy Corner and the
A4000 junction.

Hey presto - a nice non-stop drive from Barking to Greenford :)
/another hare-brained scheme

Greenford branch & Crossrail (was Barking-Greenford?)
 

Further to the whole Greenford thing, I totally forgot that the
Greenford branch may *not* lose all its passengers if it is cut back to
West Ealing for Crossrail, as Crossrail proposes that the frequency of
the branch is doubled to 4tph (making connections to Crossrail at West
Ealing). There would be cross-platform interchange from a bay platform
for Greenford trains to eastbound Crossrail trains.

Journey times from Greenford to Liverpool Street would be marginally
quicker via Crossrail than via the Central line (35 mins vs. 38 mins).


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Greenford branch & Crossrail (was Barking-Greenford?)
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Further to the whole Greenford thing, I totally forgot that the
Greenford branch may *not* lose all its passengers if it is cut
back to West Ealing for Crossrail, as Crossrail proposes that the
frequency of the branch is doubled to 4tph (making connections to
Crossrail at West Ealing). There would be cross-platform interchange
from a bay platform for Greenford trains to eastbound Crossrail
trains.

Journey times from Greenford to Liverpool Street would be marginally
quicker via Crossrail than via the Central line (35 mins vs. 38
mins).

How much faster would journey times be from a hypothetical Crossrail
station at North Acton and/or Park Royal instead of the companion LU
station?

I was at North Acton today and could see just how absurdly easy it
would be to dig out the northern edge of the cutting, reinstate double
track and build a pair of side platforms, with stairwell interchange at
North Acton. You could even get a set of lifts to the Central Line
platforms without any major issues...

Greenford branch & Crossrail (was Barking-Greenford?)
 

TheOneKEA wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Further to the whole Greenford thing, I totally forgot that the
Greenford branch may *not* lose all its passengers if it is cut
back to West Ealing for Crossrail, as Crossrail proposes that the
frequency of the branch is doubled to 4tph (making connections to
Crossrail at West Ealing). There would be cross-platform interchange
from a bay platform for Greenford trains to eastbound Crossrail
trains.

Journey times from Greenford to Liverpool Street would be marginally
quicker via Crossrail than via the Central line (35 mins vs. 38
mins).


How much faster would journey times be from a hypothetical Crossrail
station at North Acton and/or Park Royal instead of the companion LU
station?

I imagine times would be similar to those from Acton Main Line;
Crossrail quote 16 minutes to Liverpool Street, compared to 30 minutes
via the Central line.

I was at North Acton today and could see just how absurdly easy it
would be to dig out the northern edge of the cutting, reinstate double
track and build a pair of side platforms, with stairwell interchange at
North Acton. You could even get a set of lifts to the Central Line
platforms without any major issues...

I discovered the other day that the High Wycombe corridor considered
previously would have included a station at Park Royal/North Acton. It
was also once proposed that Crossrail take over the Central line from
North Acton to Ealing Broadway.

In any case, I hope advantage is taken of Acton Main Line as a gateway
station from Crossrail to Park Royal - the current 440 bus misses Acton
Main Line to head off into the depths of West Acton.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Barking-Greenford?
 

"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:04:49 +1030, Aidan Stanger wrote:
Chris Tolley wrote:
Central? Paddington?
Yes, it's in Zone 1 therefore it's central.

Even Fenchurch Street is closer to Charing Cross than Paddington...
As is Marylebone. That's the thing about Central London termini: they're
ALL central!

In my mind it's "central" if it's within sensible walking distance of
something useful. I used to work in Traf Sq., and used to shop in
Tottenham Ct Rd. So, for me, neither Padd nor Fen St qualify. ;-)

The boundary of what is, and what is not part of Central London is defined
by the map accompanying the Mayor of London Order 2000, as signed by the
First Secretary of State.

And no, it's not on the internet!

Denham Golf Club Parkway (was Crossrail and the GW link line)
 

"Tony Polson" wrote in message
...

We live on a very crowded island.

Yes. People are crammed into urban areas through the "sustainability
agenda". Actually, it only "seems" crowded because only 11% of the UK is
actually urbanised.

Our landscape is unique and precious.

It recovers quite than one might imagine from development!

Barking-Greenford?
 

Ian Harper wrote:
"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
.. .

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:04:49 +1030, Aidan Stanger wrote:

Chris Tolley wrote:

Central? Paddington?

Yes, it's in Zone 1 therefore it's central.


Even Fenchurch Street is closer to Charing Cross than Paddington...

As is Marylebone. That's the thing about Central London termini: they're
ALL central!

In my mind it's "central" if it's within sensible walking distance of
something useful. I used to work in Traf Sq., and used to shop in
Tottenham Ct Rd. So, for me, neither Padd nor Fen St qualify. ;-)


The boundary of what is, and what is not part of Central London is defined
by the map accompanying the Mayor of London Order 2000, as signed by the
First Secretary of State.

And no, it's not on the internet!

That's a shame. It could settle quite a few arguments on this newsgroup!


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Barking-Greenford?
 

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 23:10:00 -0000, Ian Harper wrote:
"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
In my mind it's "central" if it's within sensible walking distance of
something useful. I used to work in Traf Sq., and used to shop in
Tottenham Ct Rd. So, for me, neither Padd nor Fen St qualify. ;-)

The boundary of what is, and what is not part of Central London is defined
by the map accompanying the Mayor of London Order 2000, as signed by the
First Secretary of State.

And no, it's not on the internet!

So much for freedom of information... ;-)
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12161563.html
(Red Parcels Bubble 55995 at London Liverpool Street in 1991)

Barking-Greenford?
 

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:38:51 +0000, Graeme Wall
wrote:


Count the number of days when there isn't a major event at Wembley. Remember
it is not just the football ground that is served by that station, there are
4(?) exhibition halls, the Conference Centre and the Arena as well.


Hmm, Wembley is served by Wembley Park and Wembley Central. Now how
does the service freuqnecy of these stations compare with Wembley
Stadium?


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Barking-Greenford?
 

"Robert Woolley" wrote in message
...

Hmm, Wembley is served by Wembley Park and Wembley Central. Now how
does the service freuqnecy of these stations compare with Wembley
Stadium?

It depends where you want to go from/to. For Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield,
High Wycombe, Bicester, Banbury etc. neither Wembley Park nor Wembley
Central are any use at all and 2tph from Wembley Stadium is quite
acceptable. For Aylesbury, despite the slightly longer journey, Wembley
Stadium is far more convenient that Wembley Park and a change at
Harrow-on-the-Hill.

Barking-Greenford?
 

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:03:02 +0000, PaulBowery wrote:

What about this for an idea- combine the Greenford branch and Barking to
Gospel Oak into a single service via Ealing Broadway and Willesden
Junction. This would provide an interchange between the North London
Line and the west via Ealing Broadway. If paths in the Willesden
Junction area are a problem then some of the Stratford trains could run
to Willesden Junction low level via Queens Park.

How about (after crossrail)

Greenford via CastleBarPark, West Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Acton Main
Line, then down via Shepherds Bush, KennyO, West Brompton, Imperial Wharf
to Clapham Junction to meet the East London line?

4tph would offer some form of SouthWest - West London transport.

Alternativly move half of the Heathrow Connect/Express services to
Waterloo via Clapham. A 30 minute every 30 minutes Express none-stop to
Waterloo would surely be a winner, combined with a Heathrow Connect all
stop - or at least EalingB-KennyO-Clapham, would be a well-used service.

--
Everything I write here is my personal opinion, and should not be taken as fact.

Barking-Greenford?
 

Paul Weaver wrote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:03:02 +0000, PaulBowery wrote:


What about this for an idea- combine the Greenford branch and Barking to
Gospel Oak into a single service via Ealing Broadway and Willesden
Junction. This would provide an interchange between the North London
Line and the west via Ealing Broadway. If paths in the Willesden
Junction area are a problem then some of the Stratford trains could run
to Willesden Junction low level via Queens Park.

How about (after crossrail)

Greenford via CastleBarPark, West Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Acton Main
Line, then down via Shepherds Bush, KennyO, West Brompton, Imperial Wharf
to Clapham Junction to meet the East London line?

4tph would offer some form of SouthWest - West London transport.

Unfortunately the reason Greenford trains are being cut back to West
Ealing is that all line capacity on the Relief lines is required for
Crossrail services. Cutting back to West Ealing will mean Greenford
trains don't actually use the GW at all other than for travelling
to/from the depot.

Alternativly move half of the Heathrow Connect/Express services to
Waterloo via Clapham. A 30 minute every 30 minutes Express none-stop to
Waterloo would surely be a winner, combined with a Heathrow Connect all
stop - or at least EalingB-KennyO-Clapham, would be a well-used service.

That's fine if you're already at Heathrow and want to get into London,
but if you're doing it the other way around or want to travel to an
intermediate station on the GWML (which is what Heathrow Connect is
for!) then you've just halved the frequency.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Barking-Greenford?
 

Dave Arquati wrote:

Unfortunately the reason Greenford trains are being cut back
to West Ealing is that all line capacity on the Relief lines
is required for Crossrail services. Cutting back to West
Ealing will mean Greenford trains don't actually use the GW
at all other than for travelling to/from the depot.

This is why I suggested using the GW link line to run some of the
Crossrail trains to Greenford; unfortunately, the Central Line viaducts
would make it very difficult to get a link in from the bay platform to
the link line.

Barking-Greenford?
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
oups.com...

This is why I suggested using the GW link line to run some of the
Crossrail trains to Greenford; unfortunately, the Central Line viaducts
would make it very difficult to get a link in from the bay platform to
the link line.

Would Greenford alone justify the expenditure on continuing up the old GW
Birmingham route? If stations were added at Park Royal and Hangar Lane then
it might help the figures along and you might as well reinstate a main line
platform at Greenford, rather than remodelling to use the existing LU
platforms, which would probably cost just as much to do (if not more). In
that case, you could argue that you might as well continue to South Ruislip
or West Ruislip, to provide a useful transport interchange with the Chiltern
line, in which case you might as well continue to High Wycombe - then you're
virtually back in the position that was originally planned for Crossrail,
with a Wycombe branch!

Barking-Greenford?
 

Jack Taylor wrote:

Would Greenford alone justify the expenditure on continuing
up the old GW Birmingham route? If stations were added at
Park Royal and Hangar Lane then it might help the figures
along and you might as well reinstate a main line platform at
Greenford, rather than remodelling to use the existing LU
platforms, which would probably cost just as much to do
(if not more).

The only problem with reinstatement of Greenford main line platforms is
that they're probably totally unusable, in the same way that the down
island at Princes Risborough became unusable. Unless the platforms were
found to be sound, you would be forced to either completely demolish
and rebuild the station, or move it somewhere else.

In that case, you could argue that you might as well continue
to South Ruislip or West Ruislip, to provide a useful
transport interchange with the Chiltern line, in which case
you might as well continue to High Wycombe - then you're
virtually back in the position that was originally planned
for Crossrail, with a Wycombe branch!

Crossrail doesn't need to go to Wymcobe; if the link line is to be used
at all it should only go as far as Greenford. Interconnecting with the
Ruislips is probably not necessary; both stations are probably
overprovided for as it is. High Wycombe has excellent services anyway
and IMHO the presence of Crossrail on the GW/GC would be unwelcome to
Chiltern. And if Crossrail does make it to Greenford, anyone starting
at the Ruislips will simply take the Central Line to Greenford and
change anyway.

Barking-Greenford?
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
ups.com...

The only problem with reinstatement of Greenford main line platforms is
that they're probably totally unusable, in the same way that the down
island at Princes Risborough became unusable. Unless the platforms were
found to be sound, you would be forced to either completely demolish
and rebuild the station, or move it somewhere else.

A new platform would certainly be necessary but using the modular concept
that is now popular would be infinitely cheaper than remodelling to enable
trains to use the LU station (the bay is too short in any case).

Crossrail doesn't need to go to Wymcobe; if the link line is to be used
at all it should only go as far as Greenford. Interconnecting with the
Ruislips is probably not necessary; both stations are probably
overprovided for as it is. High Wycombe has excellent services anyway
and IMHO the presence of Crossrail on the GW/GC would be unwelcome to
Chiltern. And if Crossrail does make it to Greenford, anyone starting
at the Ruislips will simply take the Central Line to Greenford and
change anyway.

I disagree. I regularly travel down to Ealing and changing to the Central
line at South Ruislip and back to NR at Greenford is a complete pain and
wastes a hell of a lot of time. I know others who already make the same
journey. How many might make that journey if it was made more convenient?
Personally, I still think that if the Greenford shuttle is cut back then it
should be transferred to a Chiltern operation, feeding the GWML, from the
Ruislips or beyond. There is quite a market for passengers from the Home
Counties heading west and vice versa.