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Oyster prepay validity
This is a rewrite of the rules for using Oyster Prepay on National
Rail within the TfL area to show where it can't be used: Chiltern Railways --------------------- At Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park. Between South Ruislip and London Paddington C2C ----- Between Barking and Rainham. First Great Western ------------------------ At London Paddington (Does not stop in the TfL area) First Great Western Link ------------------------------ Between London Paddington and Greenford or West Drayton. Gatwick Express ------------------- At London Victoria (Does not stop in the TfL area) GNER ------- At London Kings Cross (Does not stop in the TfL area) Heathrow Express --------------------- Between London Paddington and Heathrow Central. Midland Main Line ---------------------- At London St. Pancras. (Does not stop in the TfL area) 'one' Railway --------------- At Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath, London Fields, Hackney Downs, Rectory Road, Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill, Clapton and Walthamstow St James Street. Between Seven Sisters and Enfield Town or Turkey Street. Between Tottenham Hale and Enfield Lock. Between Stratford and Upminster or Harold Wood Scotrail -------- At London Euston. (Does not stop in the TfL area) Silverlink ----------- At South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road. Between Harrow & Wealdstone and Hatch End. Between Gunnersbury and Stratford. Between Canning Town and North Woolwich. Between Gospel Oak and Barking. Between Clapham Junction and Willesden Junction. Southern ---------- Between Wembley Central or Victoria or Charing Cross and Cheam, Belmont, Woodmansterne, Coulsdon South, Kenley, Riddlesdown or Beckenham Junction. South Eastern Trains ------------------------- Between Victoria, Charing Cross, Elephant and Castle, or Cannon Street and Coulsdon South, Hayes, Bromley North, Knockholt, St. Mary Cray, Crayford, Barnehurst or Slade Green. South West Trains ----------------------- Between Waterloo and Feltham, Hampton, Hampton Court, Surbiton, Chessington South or Stoneleigh. Thameslink ------------- Between Elstree & Borehamwood and Kentish Town. Between Elephant & Castle and Sutton Between London Bridge & East Croydon WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Virgin Trains --------------- Between Kensington Olympia and East Croydon. At London Euston (Does not stop in the TfL area). |
Oyster prepay validity
Matthew Dickinson wrote:
First Great Western Link ------------------------------ Between London Paddington and Greenford or West Drayton. Shouldn't that be 'stations past Greenford or West Drayton'? Otherwise isn't it saying it's not valid at all? :) |
Oyster prepay validity
Bob Adams wrote: In message , Matthew Dickinson writes WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? There are plenty of stops within TfL between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood. Hadley Wood and beyond would be understandable but not before it. Yes, but Oyster *prepay* is not valid at any of those stations. (IIRC the only place it's valid on [WA]GN is between Moorgate and Finsbury Park.) Ditto to the previous post - the list is of stations and routes where Prepay is *not* valid, which (as you suggest) includes all routes and stations out of Paddington. I admit it took me a while to realise that as well... |
Oyster prepay validity
In article , Bob Adams
writes WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. There are plenty of stops within TfL between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood. Hadley Wood and beyond would be understandable but not before it. Methinks this is a typo. Methinks you've misunderstood. Oyster Prepay is valid for public transport within the TfL zone (which in this direction ends at Hadley Wood and Crews Hill) *EXCEPT* for those places where the operators don't provide oysterpads. On WAGN that's everywhere north of Finsbury Park. Similar for the other comments. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Oyster prepay validity
Rupert Candy wrote: Yes, but Oyster *prepay* is not valid at any of those stations. (IIRC the only place it's valid on [WA]GN is between Moorgate and Finsbury And Kings Cross - Finsbury park |
Oyster prepay validity
WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. That's not the only reason. For example, there are Oyster readers at Willesden Junction and at Gunnersbury, but even so, pre-pay isn't valid on Silverlink between the two (despite the fact that TfL zonal tickets are valid on the NLL, and ticket inspectors on the trains need hand-held Oyster readers anyway because travelcard-on-Oyster is valid). |
Oyster prepay validity
In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes In article , Bob Adams writes WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. The WAGN grippers carry them and I have seen with my own eyes that they accept them as valid to stations as far as New Barnet. Methinks you've misunderstood. Anything concocted by TfL and WAGN - I usually do. Bob. -- Bob Adams - email address: |
Oyster prepay validity
"dwb" wrote in message ...
Matthew Dickinson wrote: First Great Western Link ------------------------------ Between London Paddington and Greenford or West Drayton. Shouldn't that be 'stations past Greenford or West Drayton'? Otherwise isn't it saying it's not valid at all? :) I am trying to say that it's not valid at all on FGWL... |
Oyster prepay validity
"Bob Adams" wrote in message ... In message , Clive D. W. Feather writes In article , Bob Adams writes WAGN ------- Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. The WAGN grippers carry them and I have seen with my own eyes that they accept them as valid to stations as far as New Barnet. They accept prepay? Are you sure you're not just seeing Oyster season tickets being validated. Dave |
Oyster prepay validity
Bob Adams wrote: Because there are no Oyster readers. The WAGN grippers carry them and I have seen with my own eyes that they accept them as valid to stations as far as New Barnet. That would be a season ticket on Oyster which is valid everywhere a paper season ticket is. Prepay is a different matter because it requires pads which read and write at the begining and end of the journey (in order to charge and record the journey). -- Chris |
Oyster prepay validity
In article , Bob Adams
writes Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. The WAGN grippers carry them Because there are no Oyster readers at the stations. and I have seen with my own eyes that they accept them as valid to stations as far as New Barnet. For prepay? Or with a Travelcard on? They're valid with a Travelcard that covers the relevant zones on them, because it isn't necessary to touch in/out unless there's a gate. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Oyster prepay validity
In message , Dave Liney
writes Between Finsbury Park and Hadley Wood or Crews Hill. Why not? Because there are no Oyster readers. The WAGN grippers carry them and I have seen with my own eyes that they accept them as valid to stations as far as New Barnet. They accept prepay? Are you sure you're not just seeing Oyster season tickets being validated. Maybe - but why did the gripper ask the passenger where he was alighting? Bob. -- Bob Adams - email address: |
Oyster prepay validity
In article , Bob Adams
writes They accept prepay? Are you sure you're not just seeing Oyster season tickets being validated. Maybe - but why did the gripper ask the passenger where he was alighting? Because the answer will indicate whether the passenger is planning to stay within the bounds of his travelcard or needs to be holding an extension. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Oyster prepay validity
In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes In article , Bob Adams writes They accept prepay? Are you sure you're not just seeing Oyster season tickets being validated. Maybe - but why did the gripper ask the passenger where he was alighting? Because the answer will indicate whether the passenger is planning to stay within the bounds of his travelcard or needs to be holding an extension. ROFL! In over 5 years I've had my WGC to all zones 'paper' travelcard gripped many a time and I've NEVER been asked if I was travelling beyond what was on the ticket! Bob. -- Bob Adams - email address: |
Oyster prepay validity
For prepay? Or with a Travelcard on? They're valid with a Travelcard that
covers the relevant zones on them, because it isn't necessary to touch in/out unless there's a gate. Aren't the pads also there to allow oyster season holders to resolve their journey (and avoid being charged extra on pre-pay), had they continued on WAGN for example. I have a two-zone Oyster and a season for NR from Finsbury Park and always touch-out there or at Highbury for just this reason. I assumed if I change there and didn't touch out it would cause me to be flagged as a possible fare-dodger or purchaser of two short tickets, or worse, deduct money from my pre-pay for a journey as far as zone 6. Having said that the gripper the other morning was going through at Finsbury Park and accepted my point to point season without query as we pulled out towards Kings Cross. Regards, Dave |
Oyster prepay validity
Dave Plumb wrote: For prepay? Or with a Travelcard on? They're valid with a Travelcard that covers the relevant zones on them, because it isn't necessary to touch in/out unless there's a gate. Aren't the pads also there to allow oyster season holders to resolve their journey (and avoid being charged extra on pre-pay), had they continued on WAGN for example. If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa |
Oyster prepay validity
journey (and avoid being charged extra on pre-pay), had they
If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa Ahh ok so on my Z1-2 card if I get in Z3 and don't end it then it gets confused? The other direction could be common though if you change to NR at Finsbury Park and don't pad out then it won't know where you got out. That was the scenario I assumed it would charge you a full journey to Z6 as a fine for not padding out. Someone at work has a Z1-4 season and travels in from Oakleigh Park, changing at Finsbury Park/Highbury, and rarely touched in there or out on her journey home. She said she never had a problem with it, so maybe it doesn't fine you. Regards, Dave |
Oyster prepay validity
"Dave Plumb" wrote in message ... journey (and avoid being charged extra on pre-pay), had they If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa Ahh ok so on my Z1-2 card if I get in Z3 and don't end it then it gets confused? The other direction could be common though if you change to NR at Finsbury Park and don't pad out then it won't know where you got out. That was the scenario I assumed it would charge you a full journey to Z6 as a fine for not padding out. Someone at work has a Z1-4 season and travels in from Oakleigh Park, changing at Finsbury Park/Highbury, and rarely touched in there or out on her journey home. She said she never had a problem with it, so maybe it doesn't fine you. As in the above text: If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa So, if you have a Z1-4 season and only touch in / out in Z1&2 the ticket is perfectly valid. |
Oyster prepay validity
Robin Mayes wrote: "Dave Plumb" wrote in message ... Someone at work has a Z1-4 season and travels in from Oakleigh Park, changing at Finsbury Park/Highbury, and rarely touched in there or out on her journey home. She said she never had a problem with it, so maybe it doesn't fine you. As in the above text: If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa So, if you have a Z1-4 season and only touch in / out in Z1&2 the ticket is perfectly valid. And that will have to be the case until *all* NR stations within zone 6 have oyster readers - otherwise I would have an unresolved journey every day (touch in at Farringdon or London Bridge, can't touch out at Herne Hill or Gipsy Hill as no oyster readers!) Since NR are totally uninterested in Oyster, I can't see that happening any time soon. |
Oyster prepay validity
Rupert Candy wrote:
Robin Mayes wrote: "Dave Plumb" wrote in message ... Someone at work has a Z1-4 season and travels in from Oakleigh Park, changing at Finsbury Park/Highbury, and rarely touched in there or out on her journey home. She said she never had a problem with it, so maybe it doesn't fine you. As in the above text: If you have a season ticket it doesn't matter (at the moment). You only get an unresolved journey if you start your journey outside the boundary of any travelcard you have and don't end it. Or vice-versa So, if you have a Z1-4 season and only touch in / out in Z1&2 the ticket is perfectly valid. And that will have to be the case until *all* NR stations within zone 6 have oyster readers - otherwise I would have an unresolved journey every day (touch in at Farringdon or London Bridge, can't touch out at Herne Hill or Gipsy Hill as no oyster readers!) Since NR are totally uninterested in Oyster, I can't see that happening any time soon. Soon they'll be forced to be interested - once the Railways Bill comes into effect, TfL will have much more influence over railways within London, particularly in the fares department - the Bill makes strong allusions to the rollout of Oyster across the whole GLA area, and makes a bit of a noise about fares integration too. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster prepay validity
Dave Arquati wrote: Rupert Candy wrote: And that will have to be the case until *all* NR stations within zone 6 have oyster readers - otherwise I would have an unresolved journey every day (touch in at Farringdon or London Bridge, can't touch out at Herne Hill or Gipsy Hill as no oyster readers!) Since NR are totally uninterested in Oyster, I can't see that happening any time soon. Soon they'll be forced to be interested - once the Railways Bill comes into effect, TfL will have much more influence over railways within London, particularly in the fares department - the Bill makes strong allusions to the rollout of Oyster across the whole GLA area, and makes a bit of a noise about fares integration too. Dave, you are an eternal fount of knowledge. That is very interesting indeed - any idea of the timetable for the Bill? |
Oyster prepay validity
"Rupert Candy" wrote Dave, you are an eternal fount of knowledge. That is very interesting indeed - any idea of the timetable for the Bill? It's now the Railways Act. The dft have published their current thinking on how they see things working out in London: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...sp#P637_115878 Peter |
Oyster prepay validity
Dave Arquati wrote: a bit of a noise about fares integration too. So do we lose the cheap £1.50 SWT cheap day returns in favour of £4.40 TFL zonal returns then? What about YP railcards? |
Oyster prepay validity
wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: a bit of a noise about fares integration too. So do we lose the cheap £1.50 SWT cheap day returns in favour of £4.40 TFL zonal returns then? What about YP railcards? All undecided yet, although TfL aim to apply TfL zonal fares across the rail network. Whether that means abolishing existing fare structures or creating some sort of hybrid structure isn't obvious. Interestingly, from last year, YP Railcards attract a discount on the TfL portion of through rail-TfL fares when they didn't before (i.e. before, the NR portion of the ticket was discounted by 1/3 but the TfL portion wasn't; now, both are discounted by 1/3). That seems like a progressive policy for YPRs which must have been negotiated between ATOC and TfL, so I doubt they'd adopt an unfriendly stance towards YPRs. Personally, I'd like my Oyster to be linked to my YPR so I only get capped as far as a YP ODTC price... unlikely though. Perhaps I should see if they'll consider an equivalent reduced cap for TfL Student photocard holders. -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster prepay validity
Rupert Candy wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote: Rupert Candy wrote: And that will have to be the case until *all* NR stations within zone 6 have oyster readers - otherwise I would have an unresolved journey every day (touch in at Farringdon or London Bridge, can't touch out at Herne Hill or Gipsy Hill as no oyster readers!) Since NR are totally uninterested in Oyster, I can't see that happening any time soon. Soon they'll be forced to be interested - once the Railways Bill comes into effect, TfL will have much more influence over railways within London, particularly in the fares department - the Bill makes strong allusions to the rollout of Oyster across the whole GLA area, and makes a bit of a noise about fares integration too. Dave, you are an eternal fount of knowledge. If only that could be said for my degree - then I might stand a chance of passing my imminent exams... That is very interesting indeed - any idea of the timetable for the Bill? It's been passed, in the rush to get legislation through before Parliament stopped for the election. It will be enacted progressively from June onwards, with the aim being that most of it will be in force by the end of the year. I presume that particular timetable depends on the outcome of the election... -- Dave Arquati Imperial College, SW7 www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Oyster prepay validity
Dave Arquati wrote: Personally, I'd like my Oyster to be linked to my YPR so I only get capped as far as a YP ODTC price... unlikely though. Perhaps I should see if they'll consider an equivalent reduced cap for TfL Student photocard holders. Would make some kind of sense if the YP and student cards could be combined. It seems daft that on one journey you can end up having to show five bits of card (season ticket, season ticket student photocard, outward extension, yp railcard, unused return extension) |
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