Countdown overhaul
 

Don't worry, Richard Whiteley and Carol Vorderman are staying put.
Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses' Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information available
via the internet and mobile phones too. Funny, because this is what we
were talking about in another thread.

--
http://networks.silicon.com/mobile/0...9130438,00.htm

London Buses is to spend £116m on a new vehicle tracking and passenger
information system that will replace its ageing 'countdown' electronic
timetable service at bus stops in the capital.

The system aims to improve the tracking of London's rapidly expanding
fleet of buses and provide more accurate information telling passengers
when their next ride is due.

The contract for the new system has been awarded to Siemens following an
18-month procurement process by Transport for London (TfL).

The new bus radio, vehicle location and countdown system will be
introduced by 2008 as part of TfL's £10bn five-year investment programme
to modernise London's public transport system.

The existing countdown system was introduced in 1996 and uses a
microwave-based network of 5,000 roadside and on-bus beacons to track
the location of buses on route. This information is relayed to
electronic displays at bus stops, which tell waiting passengers how many
minutes before the next bus is due.

But that is complex and costly to maintain - and often inaccurate
according to many frustrated bus passengers - and TfL has decided to opt
for a GPS-based system to cope with the expansion of the London Bus
fleet to 10,000 over the next few years.

New services to be covered by the Siemens contract include an overhaul
of the information provided on the countdown signs at stops as well as
real-time bus information for internet, phone and text users.

Both Siemens and TfL failed to respond to requests for comment.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Countdown overhaul
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Don't worry, Richard Whiteley and Carol Vorderman are staying put.
Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses'
Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with
something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information
available
via the internet and mobile phones too. Funny, because this is what
we
were talking about in another thread.


Yey as long as they add the 337 to the list of buses which have some
form of display at the bus stops. Theres that daft countdown display
on the Westbound part of Upper Richmond Road by Putney station: During
the day 2 buses use that stop
1. The 37 which terminates there and doesn't appear on Countdown
2. The 337 which doesn't appear on countdown

Countdown overhaul
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Don't worry, Richard Whiteley and Carol Vorderman are staying put.
Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses'
Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with
something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information
available
via the internet and mobile phones too. Funny, because this is what
we
were talking about in another thread.

Excellent news indeed - hopefully that means the Siemens system
installed in Brighton, Colchester and Hamburg (a pretty unlikely
combination of places), which is 100000000000 times better than what
we've got at the moment. Unless they're just going to recycle the
existing displays and not install any new ones.

Countdown overhaul
 

On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:09:14 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

Don't worry, Richard Whiteley and Carol Vorderman are staying put.
Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses' Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information available
via the internet and mobile phones too. Funny, because this is what we
were talking about in another thread.

--
http://networks.silicon.com/mobile/0...9130438,00.htm

London Buses is to spend £116m on a new vehicle tracking and passenger
information system that will replace its ageing 'countdown' electronic
timetable service at bus stops in the capital.

And about time too.

The system aims to improve the tracking of London's rapidly expanding
fleet of buses and provide more accurate information telling passengers
when their next ride is due.

I'd question the bit about "rapidly expanding fleet". As the budget for
route improvements has been hacked to death I can't see how anyone can
claim there will be 10,000 buses in daily service in a few years. All
the money is going on the Tube.

New services to be covered by the Siemens contract include an overhaul
of the information provided on the countdown signs at stops as well as
real-time bus information for internet, phone and text users.

The bit that is missing from these statements is whether any more stops
or routes are going to be covered in terms of bus stop displays. It's
all jolly lovely having text and Internet information but I would want
accurate information at the stop. When Countdown works then it's great
but so often it does not and words like "overhaul" tend to suggest a bit
of a patch and mend approach to me.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Countdown overhaul
 

Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses'
Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with
something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information
available

Is all this reliance on GPS a good idea? If at some point the US
military decides to
scramble the signal (and don't say it won't ever happen, you just don't
know) then
it seems half our infrastructure will now stop working. I can't help
but think this
is incredibly shortsighted.

B2003

Countdown overhaul
 

Siemens have been awarded a contract to overhaul London Buses'
Countdown
system, replacing the current AVL beacon-based technology with
something
based around GPS; there will be enhanced real-time information
available

Is all this reliance on GPS a good idea? If at some point the US
military decides to
scramble or kill the signal (and don't say it won't ever happen, you
just don't know) then
it seems half our infrastructure will now stop working. I can't help
but think this
is incredibly shortsighted.

B2003

Countdown overhaul
 

In message .com,
Boltar writes

Is all this reliance on GPS a good idea? If at some point the US
military decides to scramble or kill the signal (and don't say it won't
ever happen, you just don't know) then it seems half our infrastructure
will now stop working.

I think that's why Europe is currently investing so much in Galileo.

I can't help but think this is incredibly shortsighted.

Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its just that
we might not know when they are coming any more.

--
Paul Terry

Countdown overhaul
 

Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its just
that
we might not know when they are coming any more.

True in this case. But what about the new trains on Southern that
have to get a GPS signal or they chuck a wobbly, aircraft navigation
systems
etc.

B2003

Countdown overhaul
 

On Tue, 17 May 2005, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:09:14 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

Don't worry, Richard Whiteley and Carol Vorderman are staying put.

I'd question the bit about "rapidly expanding fleet". As the budget for
route improvements has been hacked to death I can't see how anyone can
claim there will be 10,000 buses in daily service in a few years.

Ken is planning to merge the London Buses and the PCO and reclassify taxis
as buses.

tom

--
When you mentioned INSERT-MIND-INPUT ... did they look at you like this?

Countdown overhaul
 

On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:01:30 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

I think that's why Europe is currently investing so much in Galileo.

As I recall someone telling me (and it could be wrong), Galileo will
be chargeable, not free-to-air.

I can't help but think this is incredibly shortsighted.

Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its just that
we might not know when they are coming any more.

True - but I'd agree. There is no reason why a well-designed beacon
based system using short-range radio should not return reliable
results.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Countdown overhaul
 

On 17 May 2005 07:12:57 -0700, Boltar
wrote in . com:
Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its just
that
we might not know when they are coming any more.

True in this case. But what about the new trains on Southern that
have to get a GPS signal or they chuck a wobbly, aircraft navigation
systems
etc.

I thought (civilian) aircraft were not authorised to use GPS for
navigation. Has that changed?

--
Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

Countdown overhaul
 

On Tue, 17 May 2005, Dr Ivan D. Reid wrote:

On 17 May 2005 07:12:57 -0700, Boltar
wrote in . com:
Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its just
that
we might not know when they are coming any more.

True in this case. But what about the new trains on Southern that have
to get a GPS signal or they chuck a wobbly, aircraft navigation systems
etc.

I thought (civilian) aircraft were not authorised to use GPS for
navigation.

To use it, or to depend on it?

Has that changed?

Not that i'm aware - i think that's one of the reasons for Galileo, which
will allow things like automatic landings. Once it's operational, i'm off
flying for good.

tom

--
It's amazing how often conversations with you have the imaginary sound of human bones being crushed to rubble in the background. -- itchyfidget, to snowking

Countdown overhaul
 

nTom Anderson typed:
On Tue, 17 May 2005, Dr Ivan D. Reid wrote:

On 17 May 2005 07:12:57 -0700, Boltar
wrote in . com:
Well, I don't think the buses will actually stop working - its
just that we might not know when they are coming any more.

True in this case. But what about the new trains on Southern that
have to get a GPS signal or they chuck a wobbly, aircraft
navigation systems etc.

I thought (civilian) aircraft were not authorised to use GPS for
navigation.

To use it, or to depend on it?

Has that changed?

Not that i'm aware - i think that's one of the reasons for Galileo,
which will allow things like automatic landings. Once it's
operational, i'm off flying for good.

Yes, it won't be as much fun without all those crap landings by human
pilots.

But there's nothing new about automatic landings. I experienced my first
one on a BEA Trident at Heathrow about 40 years ago. They were
sufficiently rare then for all passengers to be presented with a gift to
mark the occasion (tie for men, scarf for women).
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Countdown overhaul
 

Great news. It's a shame to have Countdown displays at bus stops that
tell you the next bus is 8 minutes away, whilst your eyes tell you it's
just pulling up at the stop!

I guess this may help the 'behind the scenes' operation of the bus
network in some ways as well. I also hope that once the information is
better we might see Countdown installed at further major bus stops.

The worries over over-reliance on the GPS system are valid - so I
presume/hope that the new Siemens system will work with both GPS and
Galileo. Though sun spots could still knock them both out of operation,
when we might even have to (shock horror) pull the iPod headphones out
and watch and listen for the arrival of a bus the old fashioned way.

Countdown overhaul
 

When these were recently installed as a trial on some routes in Birmingham,
they didn't work for ages because the software which tracked the buses and
the software which controlled the screens were not compatible with each
other....

"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...
Great news. It's a shame to have Countdown displays at bus stops that
tell you the next bus is 8 minutes away, whilst your eyes tell you it's
just pulling up at the stop!

I guess this may help the 'behind the scenes' operation of the bus
network in some ways as well. I also hope that once the information is
better we might see Countdown installed at further major bus stops.

The worries over over-reliance on the GPS system are valid - so I
presume/hope that the new Siemens system will work with both GPS and
Galileo. Though sun spots could still knock them both out of operation,
when we might even have to (shock horror) pull the iPod headphones out
and watch and listen for the arrival of a bus the old fashioned way.