On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:05:54 GMT, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

The seating is not "reserved for wheelchair passengers and their
companions". Anyone may sit there, but should be fair to disabled
passengers who can't safely position themselves elsewhere by moving in
the rare event that such a passenger does board.

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone with a
wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.

Steven wrote:

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone
with a
wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.

I have a few times at Clapham Juncttion and occasionally on long distance
routes. But at the moment frankly a lot of stations are utterly inaccessible
for wheelchair users, leaving only a few combinations of routes viable. Even
the stations that are good at allowing a wheelchair user to make it onto the
platform from the street then let the side down by not having the platform
at roll-on level.

I recall a leaflet from either Railtrack or one of the South London TOCs
from a decade ago about wheelchair users which was full of obstacles - from
what it seemed the wheelchairs used by about 2/3 of wheelchair users would
not be allowed for one reason or another. Staff are not able to put chairs
on and off trains - fair enough but they equally seem unable to use the
portable ramps issued to most stations. For all the central effort to make
the railways accessible and DDA compliant, a lot of staff on the ground are
not aiding that - similar to the way a lot of London bus drivers seem unable
to learn how to operate the ramps.

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

For all the central effort to make
the railways accessible and DDA compliant, a lot of staff on the ground are
not aiding that...

All too often there are no staff anyway.
For example at Micheldever (a station I use a fair amount) there are no
staff after about 9-ish and all the trains stop at an island platform.
There is no access other than the stepped subway.

My own local station has no staff after 12.50 and the upline has no
access. the only way for a wheelchair user to get off the station is to
go several stations up the line then return.

Pathetic.

John B

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone
with a
wheel chair use a train.


And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.


I have a few times at Clapham Juncttion and occasionally on long distance
routes. But at the moment frankly a lot of stations are utterly inaccessible
for wheelchair users, leaving only a few combinations of routes viable.

So they may need help on some routes.

Earlier this year, I changed train at Castle Cary, a middle-of-nowhere
station that gets trains stopping because it's a junction. The main
line train stopped several minutes, longer than scheduled, while the
guard helped a wheelchair user on (a nontrivial job because the platform
is only accessible by footbridge). A _good_ reason for a modest delay,
and by the time I got off (Plymouth), it had made up the lost time.

Oh, and I've seen many wheelchair users on trains. One or two were
quite memorable people.

--
Nick Kew

Steven wrote:

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:05:54 GMT, (Neil Williams)
wrote:

The seating is not "reserved for wheelchair passengers and their
companions". Anyone may sit there, but should be fair to disabled
passengers who can't safely position themselves elsewhere by moving in
the rare event that such a passenger does board.

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone with a
wheel chair use a train.

Out of three journeys in the last wek my bike has shared a vestibule
area with a wheelchair user - on a train that has no designated disabled areas.

John B

Steven wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Jun 2005:

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone
with a
wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.

I've seen one try - he was winched up the steps at Clapham Junction on a
most interesting machine designed for the purpose.

But alas, the train he was after was cancelled (my mother was hoping to
catch the same train), and the following one was only 4 coaches, not 8.
My mother got on, and was given a seat, but the poor wheelchair user was
left fuming on the platform (and he WAS furious, too!).
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 May 2005

(uk.rec.cycling removed)

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Steven wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 19 Jun 2005:


Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen anyone
with a
wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.


I've seen one try - he was winched up the steps at Clapham Junction on a
most interesting machine designed for the purpose.

But alas, the train he was after was cancelled (my mother was hoping to
catch the same train), and the following one was only 4 coaches, not 8.
My mother got on, and was given a seat, but the poor wheelchair user was
left fuming on the platform (and he WAS furious, too!).

Aha I have seen that very same machine in use at Clapham Junction
myself, now you mention it! I stood on the footbridge at the top of the
stairs to 11/12 watching a wheelchair user being moved up, and was
absolutely petrified he was about to roll off backwards down the stairs,
considering the angle it was operating at. It worked though.

Related note: I often see a young female wheelchair user on my 455 to
work in the morning. She's very adept at "jumping" into the train while
in her lightweight chair, refusing all offers of help! I just wish I was
that fit myself... /lardarse

Cheers,

Steve M

Steven wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:05:54 GMT,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

The seating is not "reserved for wheelchair passengers and their
companions". Anyone may sit there, but should be fair to disabled
passengers who can't safely position themselves elsewhere by moving
in the rare event that such a passenger does board.

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen
anyone with a wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.

Strangely enough, on the suburban line I use most frequently, where all
stations (but one) have easy ramp access (with the line generally running in
a cutting), I see wheelchair users fairly often. Say, 1 journey in 5. Also I
see them boarding at New Street not infrequently.

Of course, if it were possible for a wheelchair user to board a train
without the humiliating assistance of staff, like it is with buses, then
maybe it would be more common to see wheelchair users using trains.

--
Ambrose

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
Steven wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:05:54 GMT,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

The seating is not "reserved for wheelchair passengers and their
companions". Anyone may sit there, but should be fair to disabled
passengers who can't safely position themselves elsewhere by moving
in the rare event that such a passenger does board.

Interestingly, although I'm a regular rail user, I've *never* seen
anyone with a wheel chair use a train.

And yet millions have been spent just in case one should ever want to.

Strangely enough, on the suburban line I use most frequently, where all
stations (but one) have easy ramp access (with the line generally running in
a cutting), I see wheelchair users fairly often. Say, 1 journey in 5. Also I
see them boarding at New Street not infrequently.

Of course, if it were possible for a wheelchair user to board a train
without the humiliating assistance of staff, like it is with buses, then
maybe it would be more common to see wheelchair users using trains.

And if they didn't have to give 48 hours' notice (which I think they
still do down my way). I assume that for most people that means
calling in on Saturday to say "I'm going to work again on Monday".

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:41:34 +0000 (UTC), "Ambrose Nankivell"
wrote:

Of course, if it were possible for a wheelchair user to board a train
without the humiliating assistance of staff, like it is with buses, then
maybe it would be more common to see wheelchair users using trains.

Indeed. It is perhaps odd that effort has not gone into making
lower-floor rolling stock instead of what has happened, which is the
exact opposite, with stepped entrances even more common than ever.

OK, platforms are not of uniform height, but typically there is still
a step of over 6 inches.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.