Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

An internal site has been added to the internal web on LUL which has
the experiences of tube staff on that fateful morning. It includes what
the first people to the trains found - some of it is pretty hard to
read. I am unsure if i should post them here but i'm sure it is of
interest. Any other thoughts from Tube Staff....Paul C??

Downunder.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 15 Jul 2005 00:49:43 -0700, "downunder" wrote:

An internal site has been added to the internal web on LUL which has
the experiences of tube staff on that fateful morning. It includes what
the first people to the trains found - some of it is pretty hard to
read. I am unsure if i should post them here but i'm sure it is of
interest. Any other thoughts from Tube Staff....Paul C??

In general, if stuff is on an internal website and inaccessible to the
outside world then it's probably like that for a reason. At the very
least I'd check that it's ok with the authors before posting any of
the material on the Internet.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Anyone know what happened to the driver of the picc line train?
He's not been mentioned at all in the news and the blast was in
the front carriage.

B2003

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Boltar wrote:
Anyone know what happened to the driver of the picc line train?
He's not been mentioned at all in the news and the blast was in
the front carriage.

In fact there have been several reports of his actions in leading
passengers from the first car along the track to Russell Square. See
the thread "Tube Drivers Involved in Bombing" from 9 July.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Yes I know........ He was fine and became a hero. He walked out a
number of people within the first few minutes towards Russel Square and
returned a number of times to the train. He (and his passengers) must
have experienced hell within those minutes assessing and understanding
what had happened.

Boltar..... you lost me with your 'pussies' comment regarding bus
drivers. It was out of order and you need to realise that.

Downunder.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

In message .com,
Boltar writes
Anyone know what happened to the driver of the picc line train?
He's not been mentioned at all in the news and the blast was in
the front carriage.

He's fine so was the other driver who was with him (who happened to be
riding on the cushions to Acton), helped people out of the first car of
the train to Russell Square and is at home now having a well earned
rest.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Boltar..... you lost me with your 'pussies' comment regarding bus
drivers. It was out of order and you need to realise that.

Perhaps. But it left a nasty taste in the mouth when myself and
hundreds (even thousands) of others were trying to get home and
the bus drivers first response is to scarper. Anyway , I've said
enough on that topic.

B2003

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

I wonder just how far Boltar`s knowledge of how the Bus System performed in
the immediate aftermath of the Bombings is based on his own geoghraphical
location and then by hearsay ?
The initial reports which continued for several hours constantly mentioned
THREE bus bombs.
As a Busdriver myself I know that Communications between Controllers and
Drivers is what defines the service level.
The use of the word "Scarper" appears to indicate a belief that Drivers went
home with their vehicles or abandoned them on the side of the road.
I would have imagined that Drivers were INSTRUCTED to go Out of Service in
anticipation of further bombers attempting to board.
In a City the size of London this instruction may well have taken time to
diseminate from CentreComm.
I would imagine that upon mature reflection Boltar might see his original
posting as perhaps a tad to tabloidish for the more erudite readers of these
groups.
Instead he could perhaps contact TfL and enquire as to what instructions
were given to the Bus Drivers in the immediate aftermath.
Today in a few hours I shall be taking capacity loads of Muslim worshippers
from outside of our largest Mosque after Friday Prayers.
Many of the congregation fit the visual profile of the London Bombers to a
T,even down to the carrying of backpacks and shoulder bags.
If I behave as Boltar suggests Then I will simply stay away from work or
pass the milling throng by in Out Of Service mode.
I plan to do neither of these things but to carry on in my normal manner and
transport the passengers as normal.
There are far worse things in this life than a "Nasty Taste" but thats
exactly what Boltar`s somewhat insular opinion of the immediate aftermath of
July 7th is leaving in many London Bus Users mouths.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 15 Jul 2005 00:49:43 -0700, "downunder" wrote:

An internal site has been added to the internal web on LUL which has
the experiences of tube staff on that fateful morning. It includes what
the first people to the trains found - some of it is pretty hard to
read. I am unsure if i should post them here but i'm sure it is of
interest. Any other thoughts from Tube Staff....Paul C??

Having had a little read this morning of two or three of the items
posted I have to say I found it both tough to deal with and hugely
impressive.

My own view is that it should remain private. Sorry if that disappoints
anybody but we all choose to be here and what to say - the people who
volunteered their thoughts to a private LU site should be allowed to
keep their thoughts there.

As this group is available world wide I would hate to think that the
names of LU staff were leaked into the "open" with goodness knows what
risk of the media - and believe me they do read these groups - then
trying to get to the people concerned.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I too have noted the remarks from Boltar about the bus drivers and the
loss of bus services. While I understand his exasperation that some of
London was left without bus services and what *might* have happened to
vulnerable people in such a situation there is no evidence thus far that
any great inconvenience or distress was actually caused once people knew
what had happened and listened to police advice.

At lunchtime I got the 391 from Richmond to Chiswick - naively I didn't
think buses that far out would be affected, but in fact huge numbers of
people (commuters and tourists) were leaving London by SWT from Waterloo
to Richmond and then hoping to get services such as the 190 to
Hammersmith (and thence on to Ealing, etc) or the 391 to Kensington.

Every service was grossly over-crowded, but there was (on my bus at
least) a great spirit of bon-homie as we helped give up seats for the
those that needed them and as we all crashed into each other on every
sharp corner. We all helped find the best possible seat for one poor old
lady who was feeling feint, and an American with far too much luggage
kindly improvised perching benches from his more obstructive suitcases.

I do not know and have not seen anything that says what happened next by
way of bus services in Greater London. Were buses taken off London wide?

No, out here in Putney/Barnes/Richmond services continued throughout the
day, AFAIR.

--
Paul Terry

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:30:57 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

snip
I do not know and have not seen anything that says what happened next by
way of bus services in Greater London. Were buses taken off London wide?
Did TfL instruct this, did the bus companies or did the drivers take
buses back to be security checked?

From my own very limited experience on the day it seems that buses were
not running into Islington until mid afternoon.which is when I got to
the Angel having resigned myself to a 10 mile walk home. Watching the
buses on the 38 and 73 starting to roll it was clear that they were just
coming back into service not that they had been running over part of the
route in Zone 2 and beyond. I later saw and managed to catch a
Stagecoach bus home but again it was hard to say if that had been
running all the time or had just started service a little earlier. It
also seemed that the bus service in Walthamstow was badly disrupted
which seems to support a view that says buses beyond Zone 1 were also
taken off the road. All of the above is my guesswork though - not
definitive evidence to use in any further argument.


From a contact at First (Northumberland Park).
"Centrecomm put the call out banning all buses from Zone 1.
Drivers on routes 91, 341 and 476 were instructed to return to NP for
safety (security) checks. No other routes were instructed to return to
the depot.

At about midday, the 60 buses that had returned to the depot started
leaving again. Only three drivers refused to go back out and finish
their duties.

The 341 and 476 were operating between Northumberland Park and
Newington Green, the 91 Crouch End to Holloway, and the 259 Edmonton
to Holloway. Controllers were positioned at each terminal to assist in
further security checks.

341 was restored to Waterloo from about 1530.

There were, however, problems later in the day when some drivers
booked for late turns failed to arrive, for whatever the reasons".

HTH

--
Thomas Covenant
Please observe Reply-to address.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 15 Jul 2005 00:49:43 -0700, "downunder" wrote:


An internal site has been added to the internal web on LUL which has
the experiences of tube staff on that fateful morning. It includes what
the first people to the trains found - some of it is pretty hard to
read. I am unsure if i should post them here but i'm sure it is of
interest. Any other thoughts from Tube Staff....Paul C??


Having had a little read this morning of two or three of the items
posted I have to say I found it both tough to deal with and hugely
impressive.

My own view is that it should remain private. Sorry if that disappoints
anybody but we all choose to be here and what to say - the people who
volunteered their thoughts to a private LU site should be allowed to
keep their thoughts there.

As this group is available world wide I would hate to think that the
names of LU staff were leaked into the "open" with goodness knows what
risk of the media - and believe me they do read these groups - then
trying to get to the people concerned.

Agreed - I read through them all this morning and don't think it would
be appropriate to release their thoughts into the public domain at this
stage. We often talk of the "TfL Family" and in this case, I feel the
very personal experiences of our colleagues should remain "within the
family". Just my opinion though.

Cheers,

Steve M

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

There were, however, problems later in the day when some drivers
booked for late turns failed to arrive, for whatever the reasons".

Transport problems, they couldn't get in as the busses weren't running

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

riding on the cushions

?

Is this sharing the cab with the driver (there's obvously room for two
for times of instruction, and riding up front would be more comfortable
than crammed into the cattletruck behind

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 16 Jul 2005 09:48:35 -0700, "Paul Weaver"
wrote:

There were, however, problems later in the day when some drivers
booked for late turns failed to arrive, for whatever the reasons".

Transport problems, they couldn't get in as the busses weren't running

That may well have been the reason at some garages, but, my contact at
Northumberland Park says that was not the case there.

--
Thomas Covenant
Please observe reply to Address.
Unsolicited mail to "From" address
deleted unread.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Paul Corfield ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

An internal site has been added to the internal web on LUL which has
the experiences of tube staff on that fateful morning. It includes what
the first people to the trains found - some of it is pretty hard to
read. I am unsure if i should post them here but i'm sure it is of
interest. Any other thoughts from Tube Staff....Paul C??

Having had a little read this morning of two or three of the items
posted I have to say I found it both tough to deal with and hugely
impressive.

My own view is that it should remain private. Sorry if that disappoints
anybody but we all choose to be here and what to say - the people who
volunteered their thoughts to a private LU site should be allowed to
keep their thoughts there.

As this group is available world wide I would hate to think that the
names of LU staff were leaked into the "open" with goodness knows what
risk of the media - and believe me they do read these groups - then
trying to get to the people concerned.

On the one hand, it's a shame.
On the other, I can certainly understand and respect the reasons.

Perhaps some taster snippets (and, no, I'm not talking about the prurient
downmarket tabloid blood'n'guts stuff) would help those of us on the other
side to better understand, though?

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Let's just hope then that LU only use any quotes from said experiences
in the public domain *after* checking first with the contributer(s)
concerned. I wonder if this intranet facility is being provided to some
extent as part of a cathartic process in getting staff to talk about
what happened to them on the day and on how they were affected? Nothing
wrong with that of course.

The TfL website described 7/7 as the worst day in the Underground's
history, which surely means their collective memory does not go back as
far as WW11 and various events at Bank, Balham and Bethnal Green?
(Though it would be bad taste to play a cynical numbers game
re.victims.)

Interestingly, I've already has hassle when taking photos on LU with
staff citing 7/7 as reason for the "ban"(Sic). Sadly this is how
dictorship starts - as of course there is no ban on general personal
photography on LU (save the usual well-discussed caveats) but perhaps
now maybe we should introduce one "to be on the safe side"? Remember
terrorism is all about making people change their daily routine and
general way of life.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

or even "dictatorship" !!!

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:

Let's just hope then that LU only use any quotes from said experiences
in the public domain *after* checking first with the contributer(s)
concerned. I wonder if this intranet facility is being provided to some
extent as part of a cathartic process in getting staff to talk about
what happened to them on the day and on how they were affected? Nothing
wrong with that of course.

My very limited experience and some feedback from people who work for me
is that a lot of LU people do want to talk about what has happened.

Interestingly, I've already has hassle when taking photos on LU with
staff citing 7/7 as reason for the "ban"(Sic). Sadly this is how
dictorship starts - as of course there is no ban on general personal
photography on LU (save the usual well-discussed caveats) but perhaps
now maybe we should introduce one "to be on the safe side"? Remember
terrorism is all about making people change their daily routine and
general way of life.

A somewhat ironic reaction given

a) the police's repeated pleas for any photo evidence held by the
public.
b) the general recognition by organisations like BAA that allowing
enthusiasts to take photos without undue restriction is a good thing.
After some lobbying the TOCs and Network Rail have now agreed a code of
practice for photography on the railway system that is designed to
permit access and not restrict it.
c) there is no evidence whatsoever that allowing people to take
photographs of what TfL itself calls a London attraction had anything to
do with the events of 10 days ago.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:



The TfL website described 7/7 as the worst day in the Underground's
history, which surely means their collective memory does not go back as
far as WW11 and various events at Bank, Balham and Bethnal Green?
(Though it would be bad taste to play a cynical numbers game
re.victims.)

Worse peace time day I think you'll find.

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Robert Woolley wrote:
On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:



The TfL website described 7/7 as the worst day in the Underground's
history, which surely means their collective memory does not go
back as far as WW11 and various events at Bank, Balham and Bethnal
Green? (Though it would be bad taste to play a cynical numbers game
re.victims.)

Worse peace time day I think you'll find.

The actual words are "This is the worst incident in the history of
London underground".
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Richard J. wrote:
Robert Woolley wrote:
On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:



The TfL website described 7/7 as the worst day in the Underground's
history, which surely means their collective memory does not go
back as far as WW11 and various events at Bank, Balham and Bethnal
Green? (Though it would be bad taste to play a cynical numbers game
re.victims.)

Worse peace time day I think you'll find.

The actual words are "This is the worst incident in the history of
London underground".

Is that "London underground" what has become the system or "London
Underground Limited"?

If the latter, then the statement is true since LU Ltd only came into
existence in 1984. ;-)

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Brimstone wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Robert Woolley wrote:
On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:



The TfL website described 7/7 as the worst day in the
Underground's history, which surely means their collective
memory does not go back as far as WW11 and various events at
Bank, Balham and Bethnal Green? (Though it would be bad taste to
play a cynical numbers game re.victims.)

Worse peace time day I think you'll find.

The actual words are "This is the worst incident in the history of
London underground".

Is that "London underground" what has become the system or "London
Underground Limited"?

I copied it exactly as it appeared in the "Notes for editors" at the
bottom of at least two press releases. I guess the lower-case 'u' was
just a typo.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...

Perhaps some taster snippets (and, no, I'm not talking about the prurient
downmarket tabloid blood'n'guts stuff) would help those of us on the other
side to better understand, though?

What exactly are you after?

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

If TFL really are using the phrase "London underground" they really
area losing the plot...

"London Underground", "London Underground Limited" and even "London's
Underground" could all in some way refer to the network developed from
1863, though of course the use of the title "UndergrounD" to embrace
what were then still independant or associated Tube and Sub-surface
railways came in the early-20th Century. What "London underground" is
heaven knows, it sounds a like part of a terrorist organisation in
itself.

As an aside, for some reason the initials "LU" are now the preferred
choice, even though London Undreground Limited remains a legal body,
albiet under TfL instad of LRT. I always think of LU as a south-west
London bus company, but to confuse matters still further, the Mayor has
organisised several anti-terrorist/anti-racist events under the banner
"London United" - complete with New Johnston script!

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

If TFL really are using the phrase "London underground" they really
area losing the plot...

"London Underground", "London Underground Limited" and even "London's
Underground" could all in some way refer to the network developed from
1863, though of course the use of the title "UndergrounD" to embrace
what were then still independant or associated Tube and Sub-surface
railways came in the early-20th Century. What "London underground" is
heaven knows, it sounds a like part of a terrorist organisation in
itself.

As an aside, for some reason the initials "LU" are now the preferred
choice, even though London Undreground Limited remains a legal body,
albiet under TfL instad of LRT. I always think of LU as a south-west
London bus company, but to confuse matters still further, the Mayor has
organisised several anti-terrorist/anti-racist events under the banner
"London United" - complete with New Johnston script!

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

We heard that "lul" and meant something obscene in Hindi.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On 17 Jul 2005 08:18:00 -0700, wrote:

Interestingly, I've already has hassle when taking photos on LU with
staff citing 7/7 as reason for the "ban"(Sic). Sadly this is how
dictorship starts - as of course there is no ban on general personal
photography on LU (save the usual well-discussed caveats)

I thought the official line (even prior to recent events) was that all
photography is totally banned on LU without a permit?

but perhaps
now maybe we should introduce one "to be on the safe side"? Remember
terrorism is all about making people change their daily routine and
general way of life.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

asdf wrote:
I thought the official line (even prior to recent events) was that all
photography is totally banned on LU without a permit?

Nope, only commercial photography, using a flash and/or using a tripod.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:46:19 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

I thought the official line (even prior to recent events) was that all
photography is totally banned on LU without a permit?

Nope, only commercial photography, using a flash and/or using a tripod.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but does it say this
anywhere official? I can't find anything on the TfL website saying
amateur photography without a permit is ok. Typing "photography" in
the search box turns up a photography FAQ which appears to say that
all photography requires a permit.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

asdf wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 23:46:19 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

I thought the official line (even prior to recent events) was that
all photography is totally banned on LU without a permit?

Nope, only commercial photography, using a flash and/or using a
tripod.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but does it say this
anywhere official? I can't find anything on the TfL website saying
amateur photography without a permit is ok. Typing "photography" in
the search box turns up a photography FAQ which appears to say that
all photography requires a permit.

If you read it carefully, and between the lines, you notice that it's
referring to commercial photographers and filmmakers.

The internal instructions are that passengers can take photographs with
small cameras for private purposes, provided flashlights and/or tripods are
not used and that no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or
passengers.

There is no need to ask permission.

Tube staff experiences on 07/07
 

Here goes: -

Excerpt from LUL Referance Manual:

"SECURITY ON STATIONS

Standard Sa109

10. Photography on stations

10.1 Passengers can take photographs with small cameras for private
purposes, provided

* flashlights and/or tripods are not used
* no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or passengers"

10.2 Representatives of the media, press or photographic agencies and
film companies, and other persons taking photographs for commercial
purposes must first get permission from the Press Officer. See section
13 of the document."

**************

No doubt they can still ban you under the "inconvenience" clause but
they'll somewhat shoot themselves in the foot if they first quote a
non-existent total ban, them move the goalposts when proved wrong!