Andy H wrote:


I don't mean to be rude but that demonstrates a clear lack of understanding
and knowledge about the system!

Does it?


Firstly the trip arm is not that accessible,

Accesible enough.

secondly the force required would result in some broken toes,

Utter nonsense. Your obvious exaggeration makes it clear that your
opinions are not worth bothering with.

thirdly given that large amount of
coupling and uncoupling Chiltern do often this would need to be done in
platforms at Marylebone and Aylesbury, and forthly the drivers would want a
£5k pay rise for doing it!

Another candidate for Arsehole Club membership...

In reply to news post, which Andy H
wrote on Mon, 18 Jul 2005 -
Two points.
Firstly, LT trains work in the same way and I am not aware that they have
had problems.
Secondly, Once a tripcock is struck it remains in the up position until
it
is reset when the unit is uncoupled so the rear unit tripcock will only be
hit once per period of time that the unit is coupled as the non leading
unit.

The only difference being that the LUL trains will get strike the first
signal they encouter leaving the depot at 10mph whilst the Chiltern units
similiar first experience will be a signal at 75mph!

Andyh


The are trip cock testers at Amersham and Harrow. The Chiltern trains
have to pass these OK and they are done at slow speed, even if the train
is not stopping. I'm not sure what happens to the tester once the first
unit has gone past, but in theory it could trigger the second units arm
out of the way. Also, when the A60 stock was first introduced, they
would run 4 car sets off peak, at that time all cabs I assume would have
been driveable, so a similar situation to the 16/168 situation may have
occurred then, i.e. the second unit potentially being tripped at speed,
I assume they solved this!
--
Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk
My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it
Don't reply to it will not be read
You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:38:12 +0100, "Andy H"
wrote:

Two points.
Firstly, LT trains work in the same way and I am not aware that they have
had problems.
Secondly, Once a tripcock is struck it remains in the up position until
it
is reset when the unit is uncoupled so the rear unit tripcock will only be
hit once per period of time that the unit is coupled as the non leading
unit.

The only difference being that the LUL trains will get strike the first
signal they encouter leaving the depot at 10mph whilst the Chiltern units
similiar first experience will be a signal at 75mph!

Surely they'd be moving slowly, having just stopped at
Amersham/Harrow-on-the-Hill? In any case I don't think 75mph is
permitted on the LUL track!

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:38:12 +0100, "Andy H"
wrote:

Two points.
Firstly, LT trains work in the same way and I am not aware that
they have
had problems.
Secondly, Once a tripcock is struck it remains in the up
position until
it
is reset when the unit is uncoupled so the rear unit tripcock will
only be
hit once per period of time that the unit is coupled as the non
leading
unit.

The only difference being that the LUL trains will get strike the
first
signal they encouter leaving the depot at 10mph whilst the Chiltern
units
similiar first experience will be a signal at 75mph!

Surely they'd be moving slowly, having just stopped at
Amersham/Harrow-on-the-Hill? In any case I don't think 75mph is
permitted on the LUL track!

Towards Amersham, from Aylesbury, the trains enter LUL track at,
presumably, 60mph at "Mantles Wood Junction".
Where is the first LUL signal with trip after the junction and before
Amersham station, presumably before the siding line into the main
london bound platform at Amersham... but how close, as the trains will
still be travelling at some speed at that point.

In reply to news post, which Matt Wheeler
wrote on Mon, 18 Jul 2005 -

"asdf" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:38:12 +0100, "Andy H"
wrote:

Two points.
Firstly, LT trains work in the same way and I am not aware that
they have
had problems.
Secondly, Once a tripcock is struck it remains in the up
position until
it
is reset when the unit is uncoupled so the rear unit tripcock will
only be
hit once per period of time that the unit is coupled as the non
leading
unit.

The only difference being that the LUL trains will get strike the
first
signal they encouter leaving the depot at 10mph whilst the Chiltern
units
similiar first experience will be a signal at 75mph!

Surely they'd be moving slowly, having just stopped at
Amersham/Harrow-on-the-Hill? In any case I don't think 75mph is
permitted on the LUL track!

Towards Amersham, from Aylesbury, the trains enter LUL track at,
presumably, 60mph at "Mantles Wood Junction".
Where is the first LUL signal with trip after the junction and before
Amersham station, presumably before the siding line into the main
london bound platform at Amersham... but how close, as the trains will
still be travelling at some speed at that point.


The tester is at the end of platform three, London end. The trains
cannot go through Amersham at 60, they have to slow for the trip cock
tester
--
Matthew P Jones - www.amersham.org.uk
My view of the Metropolitan Line www.metroland.org.uk - actually I like it
Don't reply to it will not be read
You can reply to knap AT Nildram dot co dot uk

Where I live (Sydney, Australia) we use a similar trip system in the
Suburban area.

The all but the front trip have to be retracted manually. Only the latest
model trains have trips that are remotely raise-able.
When a train is coupled, it's part of the job to retract the now middle
two trip arms. A small lever is provided and the arm locks up.
Part of a drivers job when 'preping' a train is to make sure the front
and rear trips are infact lowered.

This way, no trip arm ever hits anything at speed.

The other method, which I believe the New York subway uses is to
'suppress' the trip arm, it lowers as the train passes the signal. At
least one accident was attributes to this system as drives could edge past
a signal at stop and not get tripped - which involves reseting the trip
cock.


Thus a trip cock arm never hits a trip arm at speed, unless it's the
leading one and the train is a SPAD.

In article ,
Andy H wrote:
Two points.
Firstly, LT trains work in the same way and I am not aware that they have

The only difference being that the LUL trains will get strike the first
signal they encouter leaving the depot at 10mph whilst the Chiltern units
similiar first experience will be a signal at 75mph!

I believe trip cocks were previously fitted to the DMUs on Widened Lines
services, and they seemed to work mostly. I also read on the web that
some (presumably Sulzer) type 2s were fitted for these trains before
the DMUs took over, and also for other LTE workings. Any more gen on
either would be welcome :-)

Nick
--
http://www.leverton.org/ ... So express yourself

Nick Leverton wrote:

I believe trip cocks were previously fitted to the DMUs on Widened Lines
services, and they seemed to work mostly. I also read on the web that
some (presumably Sulzer) type 2s were fitted for these trains before
the DMUs took over, and also for other LTE workings. Any more gen on
either would be welcome :-)

Both the LMR and ER had locos and DMUs so fitted.

The LMR had some Sulzer Type 2s, plus torque convertor DMUs. The ER
had the Rolls-Royce engined DMUs, plus Brush Type 2s. The Brush 2s
lasted until the closure of the route to Moorgate via York Road, when
the GN electrics started via Drayton Park, and the LMR DMUs lasted
until the Bed-Pan services started to run to Moorgate. The tripcock on
GN suburban workings (originally Quad-Arts, later BR non-corridor
stock) was set by the Driver's Assistant at York Road, but on many
occasions the isolating cock (let into the skirt under the nose)
wouldn't be opened, leaving the tripcock merely to satisfy the LT
signalman via the tester at what is now KX Thameslink.

The loco hauled services worked on the basis of a released loco taking
the next train from Moorgate, with a light loco going down there at the
start of each day. Coupling/uncoupling was done by an LT member of
staff.

ER BTH Type 1s were also fitted with tripcocks, for working freight
over the line taken over by the Northern Line to High Barnet. These
carried short-circuiting bars on these duties, but trains working over
the Widened Lines didn't, as they didn't go over any conductor rails.

Matt Wheeler wrote:
SNIP!

Towards Amersham, from Aylesbury, the trains enter LUL track at,
presumably, 60mph at "Mantles Wood Junction".
Where is the first LUL signal with trip after the junction and before
Amersham station, presumably before the siding line into the main
london bound platform at Amersham... but how close, as the trains will
still be travelling at some speed at that point.


Yep. Signal JW1. Depending on how you drive, you would be doing
anywhere between 60 and about 40 there. You would always be slowing
down for the platform at Amersham, because you are either calling at
the station, or slowing down for the Tripcock Test in the in the
platform at Amersham (its a white light by the side of the signal.
There is a device that looks like a pedal on the track, and you must
pass over that at no more than 10mph. If the white light goes out, the
test is passed, and you can proceed normally, if the light stays on,
the test is failed and you dont go any further) There was a tripcock
tester on exiting Amersham towards Aylesbury on platform 3, where the
vast majority of Chiltern services are routed. This has been removed,
and there now sits a 15mph speed limit through the station. Ive not
been through platform 2 exiting the LUL since the tripcock tester on 3
has been removed, though im fairly certain that the tester is still
there.

The effects of dangling tripcocks striking raised trainstops doesnt
seem to be a problem. Trains have been working like this for years, and
the world is still spinning. Fair enough, its got people talking on
here about it, and some of the comments have been interesting, but the
system works, and LUL, who dont change anything (there are still "off"
indicators at a lot of Met stations!) unless they really have to, arent
going to change something that isnt causing them a problem any time
soon.

As for the maximum speed limit on the LUL, well, there is a very grey
area at Amersham. There is a 70mph speed limit sign between Amersham
station and the Network Rail boundry, beyond the electrified track.
Now im told that the maximum speed anywhere on the LUL is 60mph. Ive
never seen this written down, but ive been told many times by many
different people that it is. But this 70mph sign exists. Can trains do
70mph there, or is this 60mph limit real? I for one keep on acclerating
past 60mph.

In article ,
Nick Leverton wrote:

I believe trip cocks were previously fitted to the DMUs on Widened Lines
services, and they seemed to work mostly. I also read on the web that
some (presumably Sulzer) type 2s were fitted for these trains before
the DMUs took over, and also for other LTE workings. Any more gen on
either would be welcome :-)

Tripcocks were also fitted to some steam engines and also the Class 117
dmus working out of Paddington.

David