Bob Crow
 

I hear, from the radio news, that Bob Crow doesn't think the police and
security services are doing enough to protect Tube drivers in wake of the
recent terrorist attacks.

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains, and that he
is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't get what he wants.

Hmm.

Bob Crow
 

I see from the Metro that they will ballot for a strike if they don't
get what they want. I bet that when the guards were eliminated the
drivers got extra pay for the added responsibility. I bet that they
wont give that up.
I wonder what Ken and Tim now think of his brave drivers, not so proud
of them now I bet.

Bob Crow
 

In message , at 09:03:12 on Wed, 27
Jul 2005, nsj remarked:
The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains

Armed guards?
--
Roland Perry

Bob Crow
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
.uk...
In message , at 09:03:12 on Wed, 27 Jul
2005, nsj remarked:
The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains

Armed guards?

Or, more of his members in the firing line.

Mick.

Bob Crow
 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:03:12 +0100, nsj wrote:

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains, and that he
is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't get what he wants.

Which, one wouldn't doubt, is more to do with creating jobs than
actual or perceived security, given the generally high[1] level of
staffing already on the Tube.

[1] Many European underground systems have many of their stations
completely unstaffed, even where they are below ground.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Bob Crow
 

nsj wrote:
I hear, from the radio news, that Bob Crow doesn't think the police and
security services are doing enough to protect Tube drivers in wake of
the recent terrorist attacks.

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains, and
that he is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't get what
he wants.

Hmm.


Well it is summer!
Before the attacks they were going to ballot to strike over toilets, the
bombs are a better excuse for some extra days off

Bob Crow
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I bet that they wont give that up.

Drivers got no more money when guards were removed

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

Well how would have guards have prevented it happening. Part of the
reason they want guards is to have less work for drivers, they know
they are not going to getting them so at the end of the day they will
want a bigger pay rise for drivers because of 'increased risks'. I bet
if extra money for drivers was offered the guards campaign would soon
go on.

I find it sad that the recent bombings are being used as the latest
excuse to start another dispute

Bob Crow
 

"Stuart" wrote in message
. uk...
nsj wrote:
I hear, from the radio news, that Bob Crow doesn't think the police and
security services are doing enough to protect Tube drivers in wake of the
recent terrorist attacks.

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains, and that
he is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't get what he
wants.

Hmm.


Well it is summer!
Before the attacks they were going to ballot to strike over toilets, the
bombs are a better excuse for some extra days off

No...I'm not a member of his union.
I think there is a bit more to it than just gaurds. The gaurds thing wont
work anyway. During the peak hours a guard wont be able to walk through a
train anyway - they are crush loaded. So he'll just sit in the end cab.
Perhaps he has some other work in mind for them - he hasn't mentioned what
they will do yet.
He also wants to maintain staff levels on section 12, underground stations.
There has been talk of reducing numbers on these larger stations despite
having a minimum staff level at the present. Its only in a moment of crisis
that anyone would notice a reduction. I think the reason is that stations
have had to close due to not the correct number of staff on duty. These
rules were set after the Kings Cross fire so i guess LU is saying things are
more safe than they were then and they have been risk assesed as ok to
reduce. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me....... but i'll always listen
to a good argument.
I cantt see much logic in removing staff from these places at
present....surely any kind of presence will act as a deterant. If someone
thinks they might be spotted they wont do it??? I was in Italy the week
before the first outrage, evrywhere we went there were armed soldiers.
Stations, parks, shopping malls etc - they haven'y had any violence like we
have, could it be because they do have a presence unlike us who leave it to
a station assistant whos main job is to oversee the gates?

Mal

Bob Crow
 

nsj wrote:
I hear, from the radio news, that Bob Crow doesn't think the police
and security services are doing enough to protect Tube drivers in
wake of the recent terrorist attacks.

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains,
and that he is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't
get what he wants.

He's also pressing for more staff at stations, and he's not alone. From
The Times this morning:

"Cuts in the numbers of bus conductors and station staff have made it
harder to guard against bombers, according to British Transport Police.
Andy Trotter, the force's deputy chief constable, said CCTV monitoring
had replaced staff in many areas to save money. "I am concerned about
the consequences of destaffing," he said. "I don't think you can be
surprised that undesirable people are getting into the vacuum.""
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Bob Crow
 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:30:57 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:03:12 +0100, nsj wrote:

The newsreader hinted that Mr. Crow wants guards on Tube trains, and that he
is prepared to ballot for strike action if he doesn't get what he wants.

Which, one wouldn't doubt, is more to do with creating jobs than
actual or perceived security, given the generally high[1] level of
staffing already on the Tube.

[1] Many European underground systems have many of their stations
completely unstaffed, even where they are below ground.



That's about the size of it. The RMT is resisting the agreed
reductions in station staff which are paying for the 35 hour week.


Typical. Bob Crow is using the death of 53 people to demand non-jobs
to strengthen his power base.


Rob.

(speaking for self only)
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Bob Crow
 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 21:50:55 GMT, Richard J. wrote:

From The Times this morning:

"Cuts in the numbers of bus conductors and station staff have made it
harder to guard against bombers, according to British Transport
Police. Andy Trotter, the force's deputy chief constable, said CCTV
monitoring had replaced staff in many areas to save money. "I am
concerned about the consequences of destaffing," he said. "I don't
think you can be surprised that undesirable people are getting into
the vacuum.""

You'd think that would make it easy for the police to clean them up...
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12161698.html
(ex-GWR Railcar 22 in fine form at Didcot in 1995)

Bob Crow
 

In article , Malcolm Pinnell
writes
I think there is a bit more to it than just gaurds. The gaurds thing wont
work anyway. During the peak hours a guard wont be able to walk through a
train anyway - they are crush loaded. So he'll just sit in the end cab.
Perhaps he has some other work in mind for them

I thought his point was that, in an emergency, it's better to have
someone at each end of the train.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Bob Crow
 

Clive Feather:
I thought his point was that, in an emergency, it's better to have
someone at each end of the train.

Depends on the type of emergency. On the Toronto subway, the guard
normally rides 4 cars from the front of a 6-car train, and that means
that no point in the train is more than 2 car-lengths away from a
crew member.

Of course, the choice of possible positions is also affected by the
position of any controls or equipment that the guard needs to use.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...everything else in [the] list is wrong;
| why should [this] be correct?" -- Rob Novak

Bob Crow
 

Yes, Bob Crowe wants more members period. Like the D.L.R. train
"captain" that I saw sitting in the front seat of a train this week,
studiously reading his newspaper throughout, merely breaking off for a
few seconds (how incovenient for him!) to press the "start" button from
his seated position each time the train was ready to depart. He would
not have noticed a bomb if it had been placed right on the seat next to
him!

Marc.

Bob Crow
 

This is a fave tactic on the Stratford branch and of course allows them
to avoid contact with the numerous fare-dodgers who take the DLR for a
ride in all senses.

Incidentally, I wonder by how much crime has fallen on LU since the
system has been flooded with BTP and Met officers?

For a different reason local papers reported that "streetcrime" in
parts of Essex also dropped dramatically when the Central Line was
suspended long-term presumably as offenders (a) couldn't travel into
those areas from the inner-city and/or (b) had no stream of commuters
to prey on.

Bob Crow
 

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
That's about the size of it. The RMT is resisting the agreed
reductions in station staff which are paying for the 35 hour week.


Typical. Bob Crow is using the death of 53 people to demand non-jobs to
strengthen his power base.


Rob.
As the trains can be fully automatic anyway, why have a Motorman on?
Just save money, this is obviously your aim.
--
Clive

Bob Crow
 

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted can a
company get?
--
Clive

Bob Crow
 

"As the trains can be fully automatic anyway, why have a Motorman on?
Just save money, this is obviously your aim. "


Indeed - as my D.L.R. example in the foregoing showed, what actual
function does he serve? Why not use the money saved to pay for extra
Police who, at least, do serve a useful purpose, are multi-skilled and
redeployable without causing a fit of frenzy from Bob Crowe and his
ilk, and actually do what they are paid to do?

Marc.

Bob Crow
 

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted can a
company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Bob Crow
 

In message , Robert Woolley
writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted can a
company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk
Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages? Indeed why
should public service worker work longer hours just to supplement their
wage? If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. All bus and
tube drivers should resign, then see how the capital copes without them.
--
Clive

Bob Crow
 

"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert Woolley
writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted can a
company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again. There
are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use don't have to
think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't feel the need to walk out
of jobs on a regular basis.

Dave

Bob Crow
 

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted
can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again.
There are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use
don't have to think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't feel
the need to walk out of jobs on a regular basis.


Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have better pay
and conditions?

Bob Crow
 

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted
can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again.
There are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use
don't have to think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't feel
the need to walk out of jobs on a regular basis.


Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have better pay
and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

Bob Crow
 

James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean
fisted can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again.
There are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use
don't have to think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't
feel the need to walk out of jobs on a regular basis.


Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

Bob Crow
 

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:07:21 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean
fisted can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again.
There are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use
don't have to think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't
feel the need to walk out of jobs on a regular basis.


Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

We'd all get fired.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

Bob Crow
 

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert Woolley
writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean fisted can a
company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again. There
are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use don't have to
think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't feel the need to walk out
of jobs on a regular basis.

Dave
Can you imagine the reaction he would get with that attitude if he
rolled up at A&E having had an accident.

Kevin

Bob Crow
 

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:07:21 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean
fisted can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again.
There are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use
don't have to think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't
feel the need to walk out of jobs on a regular basis.


Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

We'd all get fired.


So find a decent employer to work for.

Bob Crow
 

"James Farrar" wrote in message
...




Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

We'd all get fired.

--


Not if you did it legally.

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/v...ion.php?eny=59

The very act of unionising would probably get your employer to think again
about their poor conditions.

Bob Crow
 

In message ,
Brimstone writes

"James Farrar" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:07:21 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 07:49:04 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message
...
In message , Robert
Woolley writes
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 20:42:28 +0100, Clive
wrote:

In message , Loony Tune
writes
Drivers got no more money when guards were removed
They took extra responsibility for no extra pay? How mean
fisted can a company get?

I don't think 33k per annum is exacty 'mean fisted'.

As Marc says, more police, fewer train staff....

Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages?



You've deliberately ignored the "after overtime" how many of you work
unsocial hours for a low base wage with a high level of responsibility?
--
Clive

Bob Crow
 

Nursing, now will you shut up and stop whinging.

Kevin

Bob Crow
 

Is the Underground recruiting drivers? I'm always reading about how
they do sweet FA for loads of money! I,ll have some of that!

Bob Crow
 

rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk
Do you want to have the responsibility of a train plus a thousand
passengers for only 33k after overtime and before stoppages? Indeed why
should public service worker work longer hours just to supplement their
wage? If you don't like the heat get out of the kitchen. All bus and
tube drivers should resign, then see how the capital copes without them.
--
Clive

Errrrrrr what over time does a tube driver earn? None. Well none roistered
or volunteered. They get 15 mins O/T if they book off 2 minutes late. And,
with the amount of late running on the Tube, there's a lot of 'O/T' being
gained for doing just there job but finishing a little late. We're not
talking about doing extra shifts. The unions saw to that.

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

If you think 33k is a low wage then I think you need to think again. There
are many people in London earning much less. Also most of use don't have
to
think about our pay "before stoppages" as we don't feel the need to walk
out
of jobs on a regular basis.

Dave



33k isn't a low wage. However, how many people could survive on 33k in
London? Is it the Tube's staff's fault that they get paid a wage that
reflects what you actually need to earn to live in London? Shouldn't we be
saying to every other company, 'stop ****ing us over and give us terms and
conditions that befit the 21st century' or should just say 'you earn more
than me so we should reduce your terms and conditions'? We all know nurses,
police, LFB etc SHOULD be paid more, but isn't that down to the unions to
fight for it? Isn't right that their employers should be paying the right
and proper wages in the first place?

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have better pay
and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

--
James Farrar


Maybe you should join a union that actually fights for it's members rather
than get walked all over. Don't get me wrong, the RMT/ASLEF are only too
willing to walk for it's train driver members (not so keen to fight for any
other grade), but at least LUL staff get a good wage for the huge
responsibility they have on a day-to-day basis. When things run smooth the
staff are there doing their mundane run.of-the-mill duties. It's only when
the **** hits the fan i.e. stalled trains in tunnels, station evacuations,
signal failures etc that they actually come into a class of their own and
really earn their money.

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

We'd all get fired.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

And then there would be no company, no director earning huge 20-30% rises
each year, no share holders getting their dividend? I don't think so. Get a
back bone and grow some ******** mate

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
Nursing, now will you shut up and stop whinging.

Kevin

Join the underground mate. No 3-7 year training for **** poor wages, no 70
hour weeks, no dangerous drugs to administer, no enforced over time, the
list does go on. If nursing is so bad, leave.

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

As the trains can be fully automatic anyway, why have a Motorman on? Just
save money, this is obviously your aim.
--
Clive

Errrr Vic Line. Would you like to go on an underground train with no staff
on the train? Who will tell you what to do in emergency? Who will direct you
to the nearest exit when things go wrong? God (not one particular God I
hasten to add) forbid there are any more bombs, but I think that in it's
self is a fully justified reason to keep staff on trains.

Loony T

Bob Crow
 

In message , Loony Tune
writes

Errrr Vic Line. Would you like to go on an underground train with no
staff on the train? Who will tell you what to do in emergency? Who will
direct you to the nearest exit when things go wrong? God (not one
particular God I hasten to add) forbid there are any more bombs, but I
think that in it's self is a fully justified reason to keep staff on
trains.

Loony T
Did I just see a light go on in someone's brain?
--
Clive

Bob Crow
 

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:09:44 +0100, "Loony Tune"
wrote:




Perhaps if more people were willing to walk out they might have
better pay and conditions?


If I walked out, I'd get fired.

And if all the employees walked out?

We'd all get fired.

--
James Farrar

September's coming soon

And then there would be no company, no director earning huge 20-30% rises
each year, no share holders getting their dividend? I don't think so. Get a
back bone and grow some ******** mate

If a firm isn't in the position of a monopoly provider, then customers
go elsewhere.

Rail strikes in the 80s had this effect on freight - it generally
switched to the roads....

Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk