On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:01:28 +0100, Cheeky wrote:

Although Piccadilly Bus Station is still a total disaster. A skim of
the draft Local Transport Plan for Greater Manchester seems to suggest
that they are going to re-do it yet again. That''ll be the fourth
incarnation in a decade!

There's not a lot wrong with it per-se, as far as open-air type bus
stations go, but it would benefit from the removal of that stupid
concrete wall that serves to hide it rather than making it part of the
city centre as it should be.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of cafe in
one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in the other?

It might well do, but it's still ugly and inappropriate, and I'm
amazed it's gone so long without being badly graffitied.

A well-designed bus station is not something to be embarrassed about.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:

A well-designed bus station is not something to be embarrassed about.

I quite like the one in Sunderland. Sunderland centre itself is looking
very nice these days.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:05:41 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:


There's not a lot wrong with it per-se, as far as open-air type bus
stations go, but it would benefit from the removal of that stupid
concrete wall that serves to hide it rather than making it part of the
city centre as it should be.

Neil

I beg to differ - it's clearly not capable of dealing with the
millions of 42/43 variants that use it which can result in sever
congestion at times (both in the bus station and on Moseley Street).
There are also too many conflicting movements between buses and
passengers/pedestrians. I'd also question the logic of open bus
stations in a place known as "the rainy city"!!

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:



Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of cafe in
one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in the other?


There's a cafe in the "pavillion". The travelshop is in the other act
of philistinism in Piccadilly Gardens - that godawful tower block. I
guess the owners and the council "encouraged" them to move there as it
is still largely empty despite having been completed ages ago.

The wall is truely a piece of crap of the highest order. But then
again it was brought to us by the council who let the Free Trade Hall
be gutted internally and turned into a faceless hotel

I've heard a lot of talk about hybrid vehicles which switch to electric
power in places like high streets where fumes are a big problem

Indeed, I spent a sunny summers day in Manchester last year, lovely
place, with no stinking buses arround the area. It was all
pedestrianised apart from the metro. Down south "pedestrianised" seems
to mean chocked with buses beltching diesel fumes making it impossible
to breathe. I don't notice fumes from cars, even 4x4s, but buses are
worse than smokers.

Cheeky wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:27:07 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:



Doesn't said "stupid concrete wall" now contain some variety of
cafe in one of the retail units, and the new GMPTE Travel Shop in
the other?


There's a cafe in the "pavillion". The travelshop is in the other
act of philistinism in Piccadilly Gardens - that godawful tower
block. I guess the owners and the council "encouraged" them to move
there as it is still largely empty despite having been completed
ages ago.

The wall is truely a piece of crap of the highest order.

Piccadilly Gardens was my one disappointment when I spent a few days
last month in Manchester, a city I knew well until about 5 years ago.
It now rivals Jubilee Gardens in London for the worst city centre garden
in the country. (There used to be a website of an American couple who
picked out Jubilee Gardens as a romantic-sounding spot in London to have
their wedding blessed, and were deeply disappointed that it didn't even
have a single tree.)

But then again it was brought to us by the council who let the Free
Trade
Hall be gutted internally and turned into a faceless hotel

I thought Manchester's council/planners/whoever had done rather well in
the rest of the city centre. As for the Free Trade Hall, it always had
a better frontage outside than acoustics inside IMHO. At least they've
kept the frontage, so "faceless" is not literally true.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:31:11 +0100, Cheeky wrote:

I beg to differ - it's clearly not capable of dealing with the
millions of 42/43 variants that use it which can result in sever
congestion at times (both in the bus station and on Moseley Street).

I perhaps deliberately ignored the (1)4x silliness, because you'd need
an entire bus station on its own to cater for those. The solution to
that is route tendering and simplification (e.g. send some through
services down the 50 route instead, and interchange at Parrs Wood) to
get the number of permutations down. I don't see why GMPTE should
fund a huge bus station to cater for the Oxford Road silliness, nor
why a large swathe of Manchester City Centre should be decimated to
cater for it.

Some of the pollution problem in Manchester would also be helped if
the emissions regulations were tightened on the (1)4x!

There are also too many conflicting movements between buses and
passengers/pedestrians. I'd also question the logic of open bus
stations in a place known as "the rainy city"!!

True.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Dave Arquati wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:06:53 +0100, Cheeky wrote:


Brings back fond memories of the Arndale Centre bus station in
Manchester until it was "closed down" by the IRA...


Or Blackpool shudder. On the subject of the Arndale I have no idea
why that was actually closed by the bomb - I don't believe it was
terminally structurally damaged - I think GMPTE just realised what a
hellhole it was and started using the road outside instead, which was
hardly a lot better...

Some of GMPTE's more recent "big greenhouse" bus stations (e.g.
Oldham) seem to me to be the way to go if a bus station is what you
actually need rather than just a few strategically-placed good-quality
shelters. Preston also isn't bad, just very dated (and is also built
under a car park!) The refurbished Chorlton Street in Manchester (OK,
it's a coach station) is also rather nice.

I think the key is that, regardless of where the passenger
accommodation is located, the buses, or at the very least their
exhaust pipes, need to be outside, and it's really a lot better if
some kind of automatic door is provided between the passenger
accommodation and the buses.

Hammersmith is an excellent example.


--
Dave Arquati

There are plenty of other new TfL bus stations that (IMHO) are good
news: North Greenwich, Canada Water, Vauxhall, Stratford, and
Walthamstow Central bus station.

And it seems that there's plenty of examples of 'worst practice', many
of them buried under buildings, such as this new North Finchley
endeavour. The bus station under Eldon Square shopping centre in
Newcastle upon Tyne springs to mind, which will be replaced by a new
bus station, currently being constructed on an adjacent street rather
than under any buildings.

I wonder why TfL Buses, given their recent good record, decided that
this new bus station seemed like a good idea.

"Mizter T" typed

I wonder why TfL Buses, given their recent good record, decided that
this new bus station seemed like a good idea.

Mebbe it's because land in NW London is *very* expensive and the old
'Tally Ho' interchange didn't squeeze out the *huge* amount that a block
of flats + shops + Arts Centre could raise?

The bus station strikes me as an embarassing afterthought...

Might be interesting if the pub gets a 24-hour license...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.