"asdf" wrote in message

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 14:19:45 +0200, "Alan \(in Brussels\)"
wrote:

Yes and no, because although those are indeed examples of what the
OP of the text meant, what he actually wrote (as he clarified
subsequently) referred to the construction of tunnels *to replace*
surface or elevated lines.

The Circle line through Barbican almost fits this description - it was
in open cutting before being rebuilt in tunnel when the Barbican
Centre was built.

Did they lower the level of the tracks when they built the Barbican
Centre? Or did they just use the valuable air space over the tracks in
the cutting? I assumed it was the latter. In which case, there are
many other examples of such exploitation of air rights, and not just on
the Underground.

The most recent, of course, is the tunnel fiasco at Gerard's Cross,
where the Chiltern line now runs through a (fragile) tunnel, without
changing its level in the slightest. Other fairly recent examples of
building over formerly open lines include Fulham Broadway, Gloucester
Road and perhaps South Ken to come.

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:42:25 +0100, "Nigel Pendse"
wrote:

The Circle line through Barbican almost fits this description - it was
in open cutting before being rebuilt in tunnel when the Barbican
Centre was built.

Did they lower the level of the tracks when they built the Barbican
Centre? Or did they just use the valuable air space over the tracks in
the cutting?

Neither - the line was completely re-routed, the new route being in
tunnel.

The Circle line through Barbican almost fits this description - it was
in open cutting before being rebuilt in tunnel when the Barbican
Centre was built.

Did they lower the level of the tracks when they built the Barbican
Centre? Or did they just use the valuable air space over the tracks in
the cutting?

Neither - the line was completely re-routed, the new route being in
tunnel.

Contrariwise: they just used the air space over the tracks. See, for
example, this history from David Leboff's "London Underground Stations
abc":

# The original station building was a single-storey,
# light-coloured brick structure which was rather plain
# compared with many of the stations constructed at around
# that time. It was severely damaged during World War 2 and
# finally demolished around 1955, along with the standard
# overall roof which extended over the platforms and tracks.
# During the early 1960s, the entrance and a new sub-surface
# ticket hall were incorporated into an office development,
# which was subsequently rebuilt around 1990. At platform
# level, the station has kept its high brick retaining walls,
# which have been cleaned in recent years.

(The changes of name are mentioned in a separate paragraph.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "I seem to have become a signature quote."
-- David Keldsen

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:01:35 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:

The Circle line through Barbican almost fits this description - it was
in open cutting before being rebuilt in tunnel when the Barbican
Centre was built.

Did they lower the level of the tracks when they built the Barbican
Centre? Or did they just use the valuable air space over the tracks in
the cutting?

Neither - the line was completely re-routed, the new route being in
tunnel.

Contrariwise: they just used the air space over the tracks. See, for
example, this history from David Leboff's "London Underground Stations
abc":

I've just checked, and it looks like I was wrong in saying "the line
through Barbican" - it appears the station itself was not affected.

CULG[1] says the following:

"Between 1963 and 1965 a new shorter route was built for the line
between Barbican and Moorgate, south of and lower than the previous
alignment. While the old route was in the open, the deviation line was
placed in tunnels ready for the Barbican Centre to be built over it."


[1]
http://www.davros.org/rail/culg/hammersmith.html

I've just checked, and it looks like I was wrong in saying "the line
through Barbican" - it appears the station itself was not affected.

Ah. Okay, that clears that up, then.
--
Mark Brader | "Are you finding it frustrating when everything works on minix?
| No more all-nighters to get a nifty program working?"
Toronto | -- Linus Torvalds announces Linux, 1991

"asdf" wrote in message

"Between 1963 and 1965 a new shorter route was built for the line
between Barbican and Moorgate, south of and lower than the previous
alignment. While the old route was in the open, the deviation line was
placed in tunnels ready for the Barbican Centre to be built over it."

Presumably the Widened Lines were moved in the same way at the same
time?

In article , Nigel Pendse
writes
"Between 1963 and 1965 a new shorter route was built for the line
between Barbican and Moorgate, south of and lower than the previous
alignment. While the old route was in the open, the deviation line was
placed in tunnels ready for the Barbican Centre to be built over it."
Presumably the Widened Lines were moved in the same way at the same
time?

Yes. In fact, the Widened Lines had to be moved first (think about it).

The connections from old to new alignments were each slewed over a
single weekend. Given that the *vertical* move was something like 2m,
this was quite a feat.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article ,
(Clive D. W. Feather) wrote:

In article , Nigel Pendse
writes
"Between 1963 and 1965 a new shorter route was built for the line
between Barbican and Moorgate, south of and lower than the previous
alignment. While the old route was in the open, the deviation line
was placed in tunnels ready for the Barbican Centre to be built
over it."
Presumably the Widened Lines were moved in the same way at the same
time?

Yes. In fact, the Widened Lines had to be moved first (think about
it).

The connections from old to new alignments were each slewed over a
single weekend. Given that the *vertical* move was something like
2m, this was quite a feat.

Yeah. It would have taken a six month blockade these days. :-(

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Did moorgate station have to be completely rebuilt? If not how
did they get the new tracks into alignment with the old platforms
in such a short distance?

B2003