Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Despite the current high price of gas, it has not risen as fast as
inflation.

I'm surprised that it's risen at less than the rate of inflation.
Since I started keeping records of my fuel consumption and fuel
charges, the price has risen from about 45 pence to 95 pence between
1993 and 2005. So that's just over a 100% increase in 12 years or an
average of about 9% per year. I wonder what the average rate of
inflation has been over that period?

RPI was 137.9 at Jan 1993 and 192.2 at Jul 2005.

According to that, fuel prices have risen *much* faster than inflation.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBAS...9&More=N&All=Y

In message , David Spiro
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

In my experience, having driven a Renault with this feature for 10
years, the cruise control can rarely be used on British motorways for
more than a minute or two at a time, since the traffic is far too heavy
(and I think the speeds tend to be rather faster than in the USA).

Faster depends on where you are. Speed limits here in NY state are 65 mph on
most interstates outside of built up areas, but going to say Florida, speed
limits are 75 mph, with cars usually goign 10-15 mph faster in both states.

Nevertheless, inter-city motorways in the UK are mostly very much more
crowded than inter-state highways in the USA. In most parts of the UK it
is rare not to be surrounded by 20 or more vehicles going fast in the
same direction and at close proximity. Some will be going slower, some
will be overtaking (often exceeding the speed limit and then cutting in
suddenly, given the proliferation of speed cameras on motorways). The
notion of the "open highway", which I believe is still relevant in many
parts of the USA, is virtually unknown in most parts of the UK today.

Hmm.....I guess that means you can get away with a lot more here in terms of
deductions for business expenses. Cars are taxed when you re-register the
vehicle every two years, and of course when you get it inspected every year.

In the UK taxes are imposed when you buy the vehicle, when you
re-register it every year, when you pay for insurance, when you pay to
get it inspected (annually after three years), whenever you pay for
repairs and (at a colossal rate) whenever you fill it with gas. In
addition, the Inland Revenue will seek to claw back money for such
perceived benefits as having access to a company car. On top of that,
parking charges and restrictions in many towns and cities are set at a
rate that makes many of us cautious about using the car if alternatives
are available.

For somebody like me, who can afford a small car despite not really
needing it, all of this makes me look to public transport as the better
alternative - even if the reality is that the car occasionally provides
the better alternative. I suspect that this is very different to the
situation in most of the USA, as well as for a significant number of UK
residents.

--
Paul Terry

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:43:42 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:07:59 -0400, "David Spiro"
wrote:

I agree that diesel is more fuel efficient, but, IIRC, it also tends to be
more of a pollutant that regular gasoline. Has there been any improvement in
Europe in combating this problem? As for automatic transmissions, they are
better at being fuel efficient on the highway, if there is a c"cruise
control" feature built in.

Cruise control is provided on most executive level manual-transmission
cars in the UK. If you think about it, it's not necessary to change
gear to maintain a constant speed on the motorway, certainly not in
the types of car that tend to have it, which tend to be those with
larger engines. It is fitted to more and more cars these days because
it's something that can be provided using a few lines of code in the
ECU and no additional physical hardware bar an on/off switch. It has
nothing at all to do with the transmission.

The Euro IV emission standards are coming in, which require
particulate traps and catalysts. Some bus operators are injecting urea
into the exhaust to remove nitrogen oxides chemically. See
http://www.oxonica.com for more details.

Lorries now have to be fitted with speed limiters set at 56mph, while
buses and coaches are limited to 62mph. This means that the driver has
his foot on the floor, and the speed limiter adjusts the fuel to keep
the speed where it needs to be. I sometimes drive a small bus with a
speed limiter, and it is quite easy to get along on the Motorway, as
you have a useful differential speed with the heavy lorries. Most of
the time you are in the left hand lane (and vehicles with speed
limiters are prohibited from using the right-most lane anyway) and
overtaking is a gentle process.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:50:42 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

often exceeding the speed limit and then cutting in
suddenly, given the proliferation of speed cameras on motorways

What speed cameras? On motorways outside temporary speed limits,
other than on that notorious part of the M4, I have never encountered
any, and was of the understanding that this was a deliberate thing.

(If you're thinking of the lines on the northern part of the M6, there
are no cameras there; the lines are left over from some roadworks).

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Neil Williams
writes

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:50:42 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

often exceeding the speed limit and then cutting in
suddenly, given the proliferation of speed cameras on motorways

What speed cameras?

I should have said trunk roads.

--
Paul Terry

Adrian wrote:


RPI was 137.9 at Jan 1993 and 192.2 at Jul 2005.

According to that, fuel prices have risen *much* faster than inflation.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBAS...9&More=N&All=Y

However, if you take a longer term view, petrol has risen roughly in
line with inflation since 1970 and has almost halved in relation to
average earnings.

According to:

http://www.barrydoe.co.uk/2004.pdf

Petrol has risen 11 fold between 1970 and 2004 and RPI has risen 10
fold. By contrast, average earnings have risen 19 fold.

In message , at 21:50:42 on Mon, 29 Aug
2005, Paul Terry remarked:

In the UK taxes are imposed when you buy the vehicle,

Sales tax plus a special car tax.

when you re-register it every year,

$300 car tax.

when you pay for insurance,

Sales tax on the premium.

when you pay to get it inspected (annually after three years),

Huh? Do you mean the sales tax on the inspection fee?

whenever you pay for repairs

Sales tax

and (at a colossal rate) whenever you fill it with gas.

Special fuel tax plus sales tax.

And in the USA (where I used to live anyway) you pay sales tax on
secondhand cars bought from a dealer. That's one tax we escape in the
UK. You can also end up paying sales tax on the car you already own if
you "import" it from one state to another!
--
Roland Perry

In message , at
20:57:45 on Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Martin Underwood remarked:
For some reason, the rises in the price of fuel over the past few
months have affected diesel prices more than petrol: going back a few years,
diesel used to be slightly cheaper than petrol, then it drew level and
became 1-2 pence/litre more expensive, but stilll cheaper than leaded or
lead-replacement petrol; now it's consistently the most expensive fuel on
the forecourt, typically 5 pence/litre more than unleaded. Since the fuel
duty (a fixed rate that's not dependent on the raw material cost) hasn't
changed, I'm not sure what's happened.

When oil is refined, it's expensive to change the types of fuel that are
produced (away from some "natural" mix of petrol/diesel etc). I expect
that the demand for diesel has increased enormously, so the price rise
reflects a relative scarcity.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:50:42 on Mon, 29 Aug
2005, Paul Terry remarked:

In the UK taxes are imposed when you buy the vehicle,

Sales tax plus a special car tax.

That was done away with donkey's years ago - IIRC when Thatcher was still in
power.

Now the only tax we pay on new vehicles is Value Added Tax at 17.5%.

In message .com, at
01:01:33 on Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Richard Adamfi
remarked:
However, if you take a longer term view, petrol has risen roughly in
line with inflation since 1970 and has almost halved in relation to
average earnings.

To be honest, it was probably the average earnings figure that I was
remembering. So petrol is twice as affordable as it once was, which is
the important thing.
--
Roland Perry