I'm quite new to London, and the vagaries of the TfL ticketing system;
overall I'm quite impressed by how well it works for something so
complex - but there are some things I can't quite get my head around.

I understand that a ticket on NR trains must be valid for every station
at which that train stops. I've also had a quick look over section K
of the National Fares Manual about Travelcard extension fares (although
to be honest, it scares me).

I've currently got a Zone 2 travelcard on Oyster. I've also got a
Young Persons Railcard.

I want to travel from Kensal Rise (zone 2) to Acton Central (also zone
2); this train's only intermediate stop is Willesden Junction (zone 3).
What kind of ticket should I ask for at the booking office, how much
would it cost me, and what kind of proof would I need to show of what's
loaded onto my Oyster card? (a boundary zone 2 to boundary zone 2
single?)

Now, for a slightly tricker one: Acton Central to Harringay Green
Lanes. With this journey, the train leaves zone 2 on three occasions
(at Willesden Junction, Hampstead Heath, and Crouch Hill, just before I
get to Harringay). Would this need two of the above tickets, as well a
a boundary zone 2 to Harringay GL, or is this a case of combining a Z2
7DTC with a Z3 ODTC, and entirely confusing any conductors I happen to
encounter?


Hopefully there's someone lurking here who understands the NFM better
than I do..

cheers,
- martin

On 2 Sep 2005 05:17:04 -0700, "martin"
wrote:

I understand that a ticket on NR trains must be valid for every station
at which that train stops.

What you're saying doesn't make much sense - ITYM "a zonal ticket must
be valid for all the zones you pass though".

I've also had a quick look over section K
of the National Fares Manual about Travelcard extension fares (although
to be honest, it scares me).

"Customers" aren't supposed to (need to) read the fares manual... just
ask at the ticket office and they should sell you the best ticket for
your journey.

I've currently got a Zone 2 travelcard on Oyster. I've also got a
Young Persons Railcard.

I want to travel from Kensal Rise (zone 2) to Acton Central (also zone
2); this train's only intermediate stop is Willesden Junction (zone 3).

What kind of ticket should I ask for at the booking office,

Just describe the situation and they should know what to sell you.

how much would it cost me,

This is a bit of a long one, due to the fact that Tube and NR fares
are both valid on the NLL.

The correct extension ticket on the Tube farescale would be a Zone 3
single, costing £1.30. However, I'm not sure whether the ticket office
at Kensal Green is able sell the full range of Tube fares (and in
particular, Tube extension tickets).

The correct extension ticket on the NR farescale would be a single
from the last station your ticket is valid to (Kensal Rise) to the
first station where it becomes valid again (Acton Central) - so in
this case, it'd be a single for the whole journey. Which also happens
to be £1.30. Except that you can use your Railcard for NR fares, so
you'd get it for around 90p.

and what kind of proof would I need to show of what's loaded onto my
Oyster card?

Just wave the card at them - if they want proof, they'll have to use
their hand-held Oyster reader, if they have one. The extension ticket
would be issued on paper anyway.

Now, for a slightly tricker one: Acton Central to Harringay Green
Lanes. With this journey, the train leaves zone 2 on three occasions
(at Willesden Junction, Hampstead Heath, and Crouch Hill, just before I
get to Harringay).

Right. You have 3 "gaps" to cover. The first 2 could be covered with
an LU zone 3 ticket extension, or with separate NR singles from Acton
Central to Kensal Rise and Finchley Road & Frognal to Gospel Oak
(though no doubt a single from Acton Central to Gospel Oak would be
cheaper). The last one would be covered by an NR single from Upper
Holloway to Harringay GL (Tube singles aren't valid, and Boundary Zone
tickets are only available to destinations outside zone 6). HOWEVER,
it's highly likely that a single from Acton Central to Harringay GL
would be cheaper than any combination of the above, so that's what
you'd get sold instead.

or is this a case of combining a Z2 7DTC with a Z3 ODTC, and entirely
confusing any conductors I happen to encounter?

ODTCs are only available in z1-2, z1-4, z1-6, and z2-6 flavours.

In message , at 14:16:14 on
Fri, 2 Sep 2005, asdf remarked:
"Customers" aren't supposed to (need to) read the fares manual... just
ask at the ticket office and they should sell you the best ticket for
your journey.

Either that or accuse you of "trying to beat the system" by requesting
something other than the most costly ticket for the trip.
--
Roland Perry

I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone, and that the zonal boundaries were changed so that it wiggled
in-and-out of a pair of zones. Commuters were understandably upset, but
the explanation was that the operator would not get enough revenue
otherwise, so they had the choice between no service, or a service
through wiggly zones.

Or have I got it wrong again?

Regards,

Sid

wrote in message
oups.com...
I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone, and that the zonal boundaries were changed so that it wiggled
in-and-out of a pair of zones. Commuters were understandably upset, but
the explanation was that the operator would not get enough revenue
otherwise, so they had the choice between no service, or a service
through wiggly zones.

Or have I got it wrong again?

Current map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf.

I don't remember the zone boundaries having moved significantly since they
were first introduced.
--
David Biddulph

"David Biddulph" typed


wrote in message
oups.com...
I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone, and that the zonal boundaries were changed so that it wiggled
in-and-out of a pair of zones. Commuters were understandably upset, but
the explanation was that the operator would not get enough revenue
otherwise, so they had the choice between no service, or a service
through wiggly zones.

Or have I got it wrong again?

Current map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf.

I don't remember the zone boundaries having moved significantly since they
were first introduced.

I think on of the Willesden Stations and Hampstead Heath have moved.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On 2 Sep 2005 07:53:38 -0700, wrote:

I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone, and that the zonal boundaries were changed so that it wiggled
in-and-out of a pair of zones. Commuters were understandably upset, but
the explanation was that the operator would not get enough revenue
otherwise, so they had the choice between no service, or a service
through wiggly zones.

Or have I got it wrong again?

I think that you are referring to the fact the main northern section of
the NLL was originally in Zone 2. The extremities have always been in
Zones 3 or 4. Subsequent to privatisation both Hampstead Heath and
Willesden Junction were moved from being boundary Z2/3 stations to being
solely in Zone 3. This meant that former Z2 travelcard holders had to
have Z3 as well in order to travel over through the stations that
"moved". It remains to be seen if TfL will insist on them moving back
to the boundary once they get their hands on the Silverlink Metro
franchise. My own guess is that they will move it back because TfL will
probably be happy to take the revenue risk on the franchise and thus
there will be less commercial pressure from the franchisee. It will also
make fares, pre-pay and revenue inspection easier.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

On 2 Sep 2005 07:53:38 -0700, wrote:

I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone again?

I think that you are referring to the fact the main northern section of
the NLL was originally in Zone 2. Subsequent to privatisation both Hampstead Heath and
Willesden Junction were moved from being boundary Z2/3 stations to being
solely in Zone 3.

Thanks Paul.

Sid

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
"David Biddulph" typed


wrote in message
oups.com...
I seem to recall that the NLL originally ran all (mostly?) in a single
zone, and that the zonal boundaries were changed so that it wiggled
in-and-out of a pair of zones. Commuters were understandably upset, but
the explanation was that the operator would not get enough revenue
otherwise, so they had the choice between no service, or a service
through wiggly zones.

Or have I got it wrong again?

Current map at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/lon_con.pdf.

I don't remember the zone boundaries having moved significantly since they
were first introduced.

I think on of the Willesden Stations and Hampstead Heath have moved.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.
Willesden Junc moved zones when the Clapham services started. People
travellg into into London must have been pretty ****ed of at the sudden
hike in their fares on top of any inflation increase.

Kevin

yped

Willesden Junc moved zones when the Clapham services started. People
travellg into into London must have been pretty ****ed of at the sudden
hike in their fares on top of any inflation increase.

I saw much angry coverage in the local press's headlines, as I cycle
through Willesden at the time...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.