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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
From April 2006...
http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=276 -- Joe Patrick Railways Online - for GB railway news, information & photos http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Joe Patrick) wrote: From April 2006... http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=276 Didn't it close for an extended period just over 10 years ago for the switch to the 92TS? According to CULG, it closed on 28 May 1993 for conversion to 4-rail operation, and reopened on 19 Jul 1993. I assume this was when the ex-Southern Railway Class 487 were replaced by Class 482, aka 92ts. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
In message , at
00:50:18 on Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Richard J. remarked: According to CULG, it closed on 28 May 1993 for conversion to 4-rail operation, and reopened on 19 Jul 1993. I assume this was when the ex-Southern Railway Class 487 were replaced by Class 482, aka 92ts. They also did some work to the tunnel lining, but didn't fix *everything* - there were still a couple of places where it was uncomfortably close. This was all explained at their 100 year exhibition. -- Roland Perry |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Staff Q&A Briefing note: Major Waterloo and City line closure April -
September 2006 1. What works are being carried out, what will be delivered when the closure?? - 25% Capacity Enhancement with 5th train in peak service, leading to a 12% journey time improvement and 30% capacity increase - relaying of the entire running length of track and therefore improved ride quality - improved journey time (circa 2 minutes) - replacement of old Network Rail engineering features - Improved maintenance facilities (power after 2300 in depots and on Sundays will increase stock servicing levels and reliability levels) - renewal of electrical and mechanical, fire protection and communication assets (e.g. PA equipment) - additional measures to mitigate against water ingress and improve drainage to the permanent way - heritage features will be preserved where possible A 5 month closure will provide the following additional deliverables · train wash relocation · improvements to the rolling stock including redecoration, new livery, reupholstery and some respringing, refurbishment of grab rails, improvements to floors and windows. · improved platform train interface · opportunity to carry out superficial improvements to the platform ambience at Waterloo and Bank platforms · various rolling stock improvements including re-livery, re-upholstery, a redecoration of the grab rails, improvements to floors and some glass being replaced · delivery of the centralised control system by September 2006 2. What closures will LU need? The entire line will shut from 1 April until 31 August 2006 3. But I want to go from Waterloo to Bank in the morning and the reverse in the evening. What do I do? At Waterloo you should take the Bakerloo/Northern lines to Embankment and then any eastbound District or Circle line to Monument. The reverse of this route should be taken for return journeys in the evening peak as there is a lack of capacity on the southbound City branch of the Northern line Bank to London Bridge. 4. Will you provide a line of route replacement bus service? No, because there is spare capacity on the tube lines as outlined above. Also scheduled buses 26 and 76 run Waterloo - Bank and vice versa 5. How will you communicate these alternatives to customers? In advance: Pre-warning customer publicity will be released October 2005 including poster and leaflets (which are available to hotels, tourist sites etc on request), in-train information and web-site updates on www.tfl.gov.uk/tube (linked to a number of tourism web-sites). A Press Release will be issued with the dates, backed up by website information. A full communications package will be delivered including scripts for announcements. 6. Are businesses entitled to compensation? London Underground is not legally obliged to compensate customers or businesses for disruptions arising from planned engineering work. 7. Who have you consulted with? London Transport Users Committee (LTUC) who are our main transport watchdog body, the Corporation of London and key business groups. They all widely approve with the strategy and the benefits the work will bring 8. I am part of the Waterloo and City line team, what will I do during the five month closure? Station staff will continue to work for their Group Station Manager in the same roles. Train Operators, who are on loan from Leytonstone depot anyway, will work on the Central line. The small number of signal operators and duty managers will move to either noncustomer facing duties, or relocated to other customer service areas depending on their aspirations and business needs. All staff will retain their current pay and conditions. 9. Analysis carried out by S&SD showed that the most unsuitable line for a blockade style closure, in terms of customer disbenefits, is the W&C line? Why do the work therefore as a major closure? The method of evaluating customer disbenefit is a fluid one, factors such as time of year, availability of alternative transport and the significant risk of Monday morning delays following the number of weekend closures that had been previously been envisaged were taken into account as part of LU's review of the blockade proposal. These were weighed up against the benefits of the additional works now included in the scope and the contained disruption to our customers while delivering London a show piece project ************************************************** ******************** No big secrets, but I can't think of a line more suited to evening/weekend closures, or where the 2 min journey time decrease is less relevant. Some classic "LUspeak" though - "heritage features to be retained - EH?2 (must be the NSE finishes at Bank!) and the phrase "show piece project". The trains are so little used in comparison to other lines they hardly need livery change, new upholstery or changed window glass - why not do something about the window etching endemic on the other lines run by Metronet? |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
What is that over-capacity on the Northern Line they are talking
about?! Maybe wisely they did not mention the other way of getting from Waterloo to Bank - th 521 bus which usually has 3 parallel queues at Waterloo in the morning that snake their way right the way down into the pit through which one has to walk en route from the mainline station or, for the 3rd (rearmost) queue, which snakes right the way into whatever the road is called where the Southbound 521s terminate. I would estimate that well over 600 people are in those queues at any one time in the morning peaks. ANY reduction in capacity elsewhere, such as the entire closure of the W&C will only exacerbate an already dire situation. Marc. |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
wrote in message
ups.com... The trains are so little used in comparison to other lines they hardly need livery change Maybe they will be part of the Central Line fleet for 5 months, and this is the real reason they are receiving new livery. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
"Joe Patrick" wrote in message . .. From April 2006... http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=276 1st of April 2006 down at The Drain will find droves of would-be travellers exclaiming "you're joking!" Kinda poetic, actually. -- Brian "Anyway, if you have been, thanks for listening." |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
asdf wrote:
(snip) And what about "replacement of old Network Rail engineering features"! A bit of airbushing of history going on there... And it's somewhat confusing to even bring Network Rail into the picture, as LU took over the line directly from British Rail in 1994. Network Rail has thus never had custody of the line. Looking at CULG, it's intriguing to note that within LU, the W&C line has been under Central Line management, then Bakerloo line management, and then East London Line management. When the East London Line ceases to be an LU operation then the W&C will need yet another new management home. I wonder what the reason is for all these changes. |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
On 29 Sep 2005 01:35:18 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:
And what about "replacement of old Network Rail engineering features"! A bit of airbushing of history going on there... And it's somewhat confusing to even bring Network Rail into the picture, as LU took over the line directly from British Rail in 1994. Network Rail has thus never had custody of the line. That was rather my point... Still, at least if they set their targets low, we won't be disappointed. Replacing every piece of former Network Rail infrastructure on the line shouldn't be too hard... |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Mizter T wrote:
asdf wrote: (snip) And what about "replacement of old Network Rail engineering features"! A bit of airbushing of history going on there... And it's somewhat confusing to even bring Network Rail into the picture, as LU took over the line directly from British Rail in 1994. Network Rail has thus never had custody of the line. .... and there were never any Romans in York, Chester or London ... -- A picture recently added to my gallery collection: http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13624510.html (PKP Ok1-359 - smoking and steaming away at Wolsztyn, Poland, in 1999) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
wrote in message ... said: . improved platform train interface What on earth does this mean in plain English? I can just about guess the other ones, but this has me really puzzled. Do not 'mind the gap' anymore, perhaps? Paul |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
"Paul Scott" wrote in message
... wrote in message ... said: . improved platform train interface I can just about guess the other ones, but this has me really puzzled. Do not 'mind the gap' anymore, perhaps? I don't think the platforms on the W&C are curved and gappy anyway. I suspect they mean level access ... but since IIRC the Bank platforms can not be reached from the street by a wheelchair anyway, that seems fairly pointless. Then again, it's batter to get this stuff done when the line is shut than to have to shut the line again when a lift is put in. I guess that the NSE stripes on the platforms will be disappearing. -- John Rowland - Spamtrapped Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood. That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line - It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:02:44 +0100, wrote:
said: . improved platform train interface What on earth does this mean in plain English? I can just about guess the other ones, but this has me really puzzled. You won't have to Mind The Gap :-) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Laurence Payne said:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:02:44 +0100, wrote: said: . improved platform train interface What on earth does this mean in plain English? I can just about guess the other ones, but this has me really puzzled. You won't have to Mind The Gap :-) Thanks. |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
"Joe Patrick" wrote in message . .. From April 2006... http://www.railwaysonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=276 Great, they're going to open an interchange at Blackfriars, and connect it to the main line at Vauxhall and Moorgate!!!!111one11improvement1112 Oh, wait, no they're not, are they? BTN |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:52:53 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Do not 'mind the gap' anymore, perhaps? I don't think the platforms on the W&C are curved and gappy anyway. I suspect they mean level access ... So it's an up-and-down gap then :-) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
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Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
snip
or where the 2 min journey time decrease is less relevant. It's very relevant on a line with only five trains, because you can run more journeys with the existing stock. How are they going to achieve 2 minutes compared with the current 4? snip -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) From my understanding its not a exact decrease in journey time obviously you can't cut an approximately 4-5min journey by 2min. What it is talking about is journey time capability (JTC) which is a theoretical number which comes out the end of a stats formula based on the it takes to get between two places and takes into account things like door opening and closing times and real journey time. Andrew |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Andy wrote:
snip or where the 2 min journey time decrease is less relevant. It's very relevant on a line with only five trains, because you can run more journeys with the existing stock. How are they going to achieve 2 minutes compared with the current 4? snip -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) From my understanding its not a exact decrease in journey time obviously you can't cut an approximately 4-5min journey by 2min. What it is talking about is journey time capability (JTC) which is a theoretical number which comes out the end of a stats formula based on the it takes to get between two places and takes into account things like door opening and closing times and real journey time. Andrew I've read that three times and still don't understand it. If JTC takes into account real journey times plus door opening and closing times, it sounds realistic to me, rather than theoretical. Where do statistics come into this? And my question remains unanswered: how are they going to achieve 2 minutes instead of 4? -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:51:32 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 wrote: said: . improved platform train interface What on earth does this mean in plain English? Passengers. They're all going to be replaced. They were replaced by customers years ago... -- James Farrar . @gmail.com |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
In message , at 22:14:55 on Wed,
28 Sep 2005, John Rowland remarked: The trains are so little used in comparison to other lines they hardly need livery change Maybe they will be part of the Central Line fleet for 5 months, and this is the real reason they are receiving new livery. How will they teleport them between the two lines? -- Roland Perry |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:14:55 on Wed, 28 Sep 2005, John Rowland remarked: The trains are so little used in comparison to other lines they hardly need livery change Maybe they will be part of the Central Line fleet for 5 months, and this is the real reason they are receiving new livery. How will they teleport them between the two lines? Perhaps with a smidgin of enterprise? |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
In message , at
07:41:09 on Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Brimstone remarked: How will they teleport them between the two lines? Perhaps with a smidgin of enterprise? Craning them out one car at a time, then transporting them by road to wherever the nearest Central line depot is; then doing the reverse five months later really doesn't seem worth while. Especially given that the specification and modification level of the cars on the two lines has diverged over the years - so they probably wouldn't work anyway. -- Roland Perry |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:41:09 on Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Brimstone remarked: How will they teleport them between the two lines? Perhaps with a smidgin of enterprise? Craning them out one car at a time, then transporting them by road to wherever the nearest Central line depot is; then doing the reverse five months later really doesn't seem worth while. Especially given that the specification and modification level of the cars on the two lines has diverged over the years - so they probably wouldn't work anyway. Perhaps if I had written it as "Enterprise" it might have got a better response? |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
In message , at
08:53:25 on Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Brimstone remarked: In message , at 07:41:09 on Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Brimstone remarked: How will they teleport them between the two lines? Perhaps with a smidgin of enterprise? Craning them out one car at a time, then transporting them by road to wherever the nearest Central line depot is; then doing the reverse five months later really doesn't seem worth while. Especially given that the specification and modification level of the cars on the two lines has diverged over the years - so they probably wouldn't work anyway. Perhaps if I had written it as "Enterprise" it might have got a better response? Ah, I see the joke now ;-) -- Roland Perry |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Brimstone wrote:
Perhaps if I had written it as "Enterprise" it might have got a better response? That is logical. -- http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p11857691.html (220 028 zipping through a wet and misty Slindon in 2005) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Wasn't the Waterloo and City line closed for a number of months
recently due to the Chancery Lane derailment? Why didn't they do the work then? A. |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Londoncityslicker wrote:
Wasn't the Waterloo and City line closed for a number of months recently due to the Chancery Lane derailment? Why didn't they do the work then? Are you familiar with the customary response to stupid questions? |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
"Londoncityslicker" wrote in message oups.com... Wasn't the Waterloo and City line closed for a number of months recently due to the Chancery Lane derailment? Why didn't they do the work then? A. Er because it was closed for a number of days, not months? Paul |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
In article ,
Richard J. wrote: From my understanding its not a exact decrease in journey time obviously you can't cut an approximately 4-5min journey by 2min. What it is talking about is journey time capability (JTC) which is a theoretical number which comes out the end of a stats formula based on the it takes to get between two places and takes into account things like door opening and closing times and real journey time. Andrew I've read that three times and still don't understand it. If JTC takes into account real journey times plus door opening and closing times, it sounds realistic to me, rather than theoretical. Where do statistics come into this? And my question remains unanswered: how are they going to achieve 2 minutes instead of 4? If the JTC is the expected time between ariving on platform A and departing on platform B, they may achieve a 2 minute reduction by having a train every 2 minutes (ie, an average wait of 1 minute) instead of every 6 minutes (ie, an average wait of 3 minutes). -- Mike Bristow - really a very good driver |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Mike Bristow wrote:
In article , Richard J. wrote: From my understanding its not a exact decrease in journey time obviously you can't cut an approximately 4-5min journey by 2min. What it is talking about is journey time capability (JTC) which is a theoretical number which comes out the end of a stats formula based on the it takes to get between two places and takes into account things like door opening and closing times and real journey time. Andrew I've read that three times and still don't understand it. If JTC takes into account real journey times plus door opening and closing times, it sounds realistic to me, rather than theoretical. Where do statistics come into this? And my question remains unanswered: how are they going to achieve 2 minutes instead of 4? If the JTC is the expected time between ariving on platform A and departing on platform B, they may achieve a 2 minute reduction by having a train every 2 minutes (ie, an average wait of 1 minute) instead of every 6 minutes (ie, an average wait of 3 minutes). The reduction that bowroaduk mentioned was in journey time -- "improved journey time (circa 2 minutes)" -- not in service interval. Does anyone have access to the WTT and can clarify what the current timings are? CULG says the "end-to-end" journey time is 4 minutes, but I'm not sure if that means from/to the Waterloo platforms or the depot. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Apparently the trains are to be craned out during the closure for modification. |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
Apparently the trains are to be craned out during the closure for
modification |
Waterloo & City Line to Close for 5 Months
wrote in message oups.com... Apparently the trains are to be craned out during the closure for modification. That's the only way they will get out of the drain.:) Andrew |
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