TKD wrote in article
...
Why do you want Cheap Day Returns to vanish ?

Because on Oyster from next year a return from Zone 6
to Zone 2 will cost £2 (£1 each way).

How do NR CDRs compare with this?

Currently (M-F for prepay)

Surbiton(6) to Clapham Junction(2) a CDR is 3.50 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 3.60 and a day TC Z2-6 is 4.00

Surbiton(6) to London Terminals (1) a CDR is 4.00 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 7.00 and a day TC Z1-6 is 6.00

So I think that the income of the TOCs from 'shoppers' is going to fall
and the TOCs will want Ken to repay them and the CDR buyers who don't
use the Tube from London Terminals will feel themselves the victims of
sharp practice.

Buyers of single rail tickets will gain and I expect the TOCs will want
payment for that too. Prices from just outside the Zone 6 boundary will
probably look rather odd.

--
Mike D



--
Mike D

On 8 Oct 2005 23:31:16 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Why do you want Cheap Day Returns to vanish ?

Because on Oyster from next year a return from Zone 6
to Zone 2 will cost £2 (£1 each way).

How do NR CDRs compare with this?

Currently (M-F for prepay)

Surbiton(6) to Clapham Junction(2) a CDR is 3.50 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 3.60 and a day TC Z2-6 is 4.00

Like the post you're replying to says, next year the 2 x pre-pay will
only be 2.00.

Surbiton(6) to London Terminals (1) a CDR is 4.00 and 2 x Oyster prepay
is 7.00 and a day TC Z1-6 is 6.00

Since we're talking about CDRs and therefore off-peak travel, the 2 x
pre-pay would be 5.70.

Anyway, is it necessarily the case that if pre-pay were introduced on
NR, the fares would have to be the same as tube fares? Would they have
to be zonal at all?

So I think that the income of the TOCs from 'shoppers' is going to fall
and the TOCs will want Ken to repay them and the CDR buyers who don't
use the Tube from London Terminals will feel themselves the victims of
sharp practice.

Buyers of single rail tickets will gain and I expect the TOCs will want
payment for that too.

Was a special deal with the relevant TOCs needed to get pre-pay
introduced (including £2 evening/weekend singles) on routes such as
Upminster to Fenchurch Street, and especially Harrow & Wealdstone to
Euston (where tube single/return paper tickets weren't and aren't
valid)?

Prices from just outside the Zone 6 boundary will
probably look rather odd.

Perhaps. Hopefully pre-pay will not ultimately be confined to the
Travelcard zones though.

Anyway, is it necessarily the case that if pre-pay were introduced on
NR, the fares would have to be the same as tube fares? Would they have
to be zonal at all?

I would imagine part of the "discussions" between TfL and the TOCs is
about this. If they introduce a different system of fares for NR it will
mean increased costs to program the Oyster system, the system will
also be more complex for users and will be far more complicated to
update when fares change. None of this is desirable to TfL or users.

How would the system cope with changing from a line on one tariff to
another or the tube or DLR without even more of those on-platform
validators? Plenty of interchange opportunites exist. Would you be
charged differently if you don't validate half-way. Would anyone
understand when they need to and when they don't? Most people do
not understand if they need to at the start and end of their journey let
alone the middle.

Was a special deal with the relevant TOCs needed to get pre-pay
introduced (including £2 evening/weekend singles) on routes such as
Upminster to Fenchurch Street, and especially Harrow & Wealdstone to
Euston (where tube single/return paper tickets weren't and aren't
valid)?

The special deal already existed for Fenchurch-Upminster. British Rail
(and their successors) had agreed to accept all tickets issued by London
Underground and vice-versa from long ago so Oyster is just another form
of LU ticketing which comes under that agreement. Some agreement must
have been made for the sale of Oyster in the c2c ticket offices though.