Is the following TfL statement correct, People with weekly or monthly
Oystercards can use them to travel on overland rail.
I am not ware that Watford Junc, for example, has Oyster readers.

Kevin

wrote:

Is the following TfL statement correct, People with weekly or monthly
Oystercards can use them to travel on overland rail.

Yes within the appropriate Travelcard Zones you have on your period season
Oyster.

I am not ware that Watford Junc, for example, has Oyster readers.

No, because it's outside of the London Travelcard area.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home Page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

wrote:
Is the following TfL statement correct, People with weekly or monthly
Oystercards can use them to travel on overland rail.
I am not ware that Watford Junc, for example, has Oyster readers.

Kevin


The BBC report to which I presume you refer [1] is broadly correct, but
not as clear as it should be.

Weekly, monthly or longer *Travelcards* that are loaded onto Oyster
cards are valid on any National Rail (NR) services withing the zonal
validity of that Travelcard. Passengers do not need to touch-in or
touch-out when using their Oyster card loaded with a Travelcard - and
at most ungated NR stations as there is no Oyster card reader they
wouldn't be able to do so anyway.

Most ticket inspectors on NR in London carry a calculator-sized device
which can read a passengers Oyster card and verify that they have the
correct Travelcard zonal validity for their journey.

Weekly, monthly or longer *Bus Passes* that are loaded onto Oyster
cards are (shock horror) only valid on TfL buses.


[1] The BBC news story "Travel card poster ordered down"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4418674.stm

In message .com,
Mizter T writes
Weekly, monthly or longer *Bus Passes* that are loaded onto Oyster
cards are (shock horror) only valid on TfL buses.
As K. Liv said "the train companies are dragging their feet despite
being offered the equipment and installation for free, but if we can
take the railways in the zoned region under our control we'll sort it
out without delay. Why are the railways dragging their feet in what is
the densest used urban network in the world?
--
Clive

"Clive" wrote in message ...
In message .com, Mizter T
writes
Weekly, monthly or longer *Bus Passes* that are loaded onto Oyster cards are (shock horror) only
valid on TfL buses.
As K. Liv said "the train companies are dragging their feet despite being offered the equipment
and installation for free, but if we can take the railways in the zoned region under our control
we'll sort it out without delay. Why are the railways dragging their feet in what is the densest
used urban network in the world?
--
Clive

Because as private companies they only care about making money and
satisfying the requirements of their franchise agreements.

There is nothing in the agreements about accepting Oyster Pre Pay and
they do not see it as a way of making more money so they do nothing (or
worse than nothing, obstruct).

The only way to get things moving is for all future operators in (or partly in)
the TfL region to have a franchise requirement to accept Oyster Prepay.

Clive wrote:
In message .com,
Mizter T writes
Weekly, monthly or longer *Bus Passes* that are loaded onto Oyster
cards are (shock horror) only valid on TfL buses.
As K. Liv said "the train companies are dragging their feet despite
being offered the equipment and installation for free, but if we can
take the railways in the zoned region under our control we'll sort it
out without delay. Why are the railways dragging their feet in what is
the densest used urban network in the world?
--

There are many reasons I can think of of but I've not enough time for
such an extensive post just at the moment, I'll try to do so later.

In essence though I think you could sum it up with the TOCs wishing to
protect their fiefdom and being wary of the expansion of TfL onto their
patch. There is, I think, a quiet turf battle being fought ahead of the
creation of a possible London Rail Authority [1] - TfL on one side, the
TOCs on another, both pushing their case with the new Department for
Transport Rail Group. Though that is an extreme simplification.


Specifically regarding ticketing, if you accept that Pre Pay on NR in
London would be based on a zonal system (as opposed to point-to-point
ticketing), it would almost certainly need to be combined with the roll
out of a complete zonal ticketing system (i.e. both Pre Pay and printed
tickets) across the railways in London, otherwise there would be
innumerable anomalies where Pre Pay and printed tickets would cost
different amounts.

And whatever others on this newsgroup might say, point-to-point NR
ticketing on Pre Pay would be so horrendously complex I seriously don't
think it'd be practical to do down that route.

The TOCs thus fear that they'd lose control over setting fares within
London and be sidelined in revenue collection and distribution, whilst
TfL took the lead.

Anyway, that's just my one penny's worth...


[1] For more on the 'London Rail Authority' see Dave Arquati's superb
website:
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/66

TKD wrote:
"Clive" wrote in message ...
In message .com, Mizter T
writes
Weekly, monthly or longer *Bus Passes* that are loaded onto Oyster cards are (shock horror) only
valid on TfL buses.
As K. Liv said "the train companies are dragging their feet despite being offered the equipment
and installation for free, but if we can take the railways in the zoned region under our control
we'll sort it out without delay. Why are the railways dragging their feet in what is the densest
used urban network in the world?
--
Clive

Because as private companies they only care about making money and
satisfying the requirements of their franchise agreements.

There is nothing in the agreements about accepting Oyster Pre Pay and
they do not see it as a way of making more money so they do nothing (or
worse than nothing, obstruct).

The only way to get things moving is for all future operators in (or partly in)
the TfL region to have a franchise requirement to accept Oyster Prepay.


You've put if far more concisely and to the point than my ramble
managed to! The TOCs are a hostage to their frachise agreements, and to
the structure they operate within. It's time to change that structure
(I'm starting to sound like a Marxist!).

As K. Liv said "the train companies are dragging their feet despite being offered the equipment
and installation for free, but if we can take the railways in the zoned region under our
control
we'll sort it out without delay. Why are the railways dragging their feet in what is the
densest
used urban network in the world?
--
Clive

Because as private companies they only care about making money and
satisfying the requirements of their franchise agreements.

There is nothing in the agreements about accepting Oyster Pre Pay and
they do not see it as a way of making more money so they do nothing (or
worse than nothing, obstruct).

The only way to get things moving is for all future operators in (or partly in)
the TfL region to have a franchise requirement to accept Oyster Prepay.


You've put if far more concisely and to the point than my ramble
managed to! The TOCs are a hostage to their frachise agreements, and to
the structure they operate within. It's time to change that structure
(I'm starting to sound like a Marxist!).

If there had been an elected body responsible for the government of London
at the time of rail privatisation and they had been given some authority over
rail services and ticketing in the London region this mess could have been
avoided. However, a governing body for one of the main world cities with a
remit covering all transport in its region was considered unnecessary by the
government of the day.

TKD wrote in uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:02:42 -0000
:

If there had been an elected body responsible for the government of London
at the time of rail privatisation and they had been given some authority over
rail services and ticketing in the London region this mess could have been
avoided. However, a governing body for one of the main world cities with a
remit covering all transport in its region was considered unnecessary by the
government of the day.

While, as you say, this could have been avoided from the start of
franchising, most (if not all?) franchises in the London Region have
been, or are in the process of being, re-tendered since they were
first let.

ICBW, but I haven't seen any indication that the new agreements
include any requirement to co-operate with TfL on Prestige/Oyster.

--
hike
- a walking tour or outing, esp. of the self-conscious kind
Chambers 20th Century Dictionary

TKD wrote:
(snip)
If there had been an elected body responsible for the government of London
at the time of rail privatisation and they had been given some authority over
rail services and ticketing in the London region this mess could have been
avoided. However, a governing body for one of the main world cities with a
remit covering all transport in its region was considered unnecessary by the
government of the day.

Indeed, it was an absurd situation and I'm glad it finally ended.

There were some interesting proposals generated IIRC by the Labour
Party, or perhaps some associated think tank, before the '97 election
which floated the idea of the proposed new London-area authority having
jurisdiction over an extended area beyond the limit 32 London Boroughs,
which I think included much of the Thames Estuary and possibly other
areas as well.

In a way the boundaries of TfL's proposed 'London Regional Rail
Authority' could be seen in the same light - i.e. as the city expanding
and exercising it's power over surrounding areas. However I think it's
a sensible idea as long as there's appropriate representation from
those authorities affected by this. I've a lot more faith in a TfL-led
public spirited approach than the current situation.

I'm just rambling... I'll stop now!