In message , Paul Corfield
writes
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:11:02 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:
The queue for the limited edition models at the LT Museum shop on
Thursday morning (an hour's wait but I did get them). Great company in
the queue there, too. (Has anyone else noticed how much friendlier
staff are in the shop since the temporary move to the Market proper?)

I queued for mine on Saturday morning for about an hour. While I
understand why there is a big demand for the models I found the
arrangements to be close to barking mad. They could have set up a
completely separate stand on the piazza and sold them through that.
I suspect that their arrangements with the Covent Garden people
themselves would probably have prevented that being done. (Covent
Garden is a pretty regimented place, however "spontaneous" it might
look, usually for the better!)

it was, though, *very* unfortunate that the shop was in temporary
premises and very cramped ones at that at this time.

Forcing everyone through the shop meant that all other customers who
were not interested in the models had to queue for an hour or so -
utterly daft.
Yes, we wondered how much "passing" trade the shop was losing. Probably
not enough to worry them in tandem with the sales on the EFE models,
though.

I have not noticed any change in the museum shop staff - they are all
the same people as before and can be as sullen and unhelpful as ever.
That's interesting. It was me that first mentioned here on utl how
unenthusiastic people were in the shop, I think. But since the move it
has seemed very different to me. One man (probably the manager) had a
long talk to me one day about their subscription service for models (it
was a weekday, though and correspondingly quiet).

Then during the melee on Thursday the girl serving downstairs was very
pleasant, laughing and joking with my wife. Maybe I've just been lucky
but it seems to me that there's been something of a "sea change" since
the move. I hope so anyway.

Once in a while I would like to be treated as a customer rather than a
hindrance to their social life.
Yes had that in the old place.......

I also don't appreciate being "told off"
for the inadequacies of their mail order system that takes months to
send out models [1] or being required to seek out other members of staff
because they can't be bothered to talk to each other.
And that!

[1] I can order models from Hong Kong that take 1 week to arrive despite
travelling thousands of miles.
Yes, having obtained the relevant forms for the Mail Order service, I
have to say it does seen *very* cumbersome and complex. Ordering from
online services is *much* easier. But then I like to support the shop,
I'm often free for a while in Covent Garden and I get the discount as a
Friend.

Having seen the queues for the models on Saturday afternoon, I did
wonder though how many were actually produced and were we all "duped" a
bit?! :-)) Alistair Stewart, offering a model as a prize on London
Tonight on Friday said that 6,000 had been produced. The girl in the
shop told my wife that they had 300 to sell per day. Even allowing for
300 of each model and assuming that 6,000 meant 3,000 of each, that
still gives a total of only 900 sold in the shop and 2,100 "spare". Or
maybe the figures are wrong.


Anyway, I don't really care; as I said, it was a great time and I was
*so* glad to be able to be there!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:08:54 +0000, Ian Jelf
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

[lt museum shop]

I have not noticed any change in the museum shop staff - they are all
the same people as before and can be as sullen and unhelpful as ever.

That's interesting. It was me that first mentioned here on utl how
unenthusiastic people were in the shop, I think. But since the move it
has seemed very different to me. One man (probably the manager) had a
long talk to me one day about their subscription service for models (it
was a weekday, though and correspondingly quiet).

Mike Walton is the manager - always very chatty. I have used the
subscription service in the vain hope of being able to ensure I get
models that I think will be in very high demand. However with about one
exception none have sold out quickly. Thus I can see models on the shelf
and yet be told that I won't get one sent to me for months. That's
stupid in my view - how complicated is it to record a sale, update a
database, stuff the model in a jiffy bag and get it franked and
collected by the Royal Mail? I'm obviously missing something because in
my experience is takes a few minutes if you've got a half competent
person doing the task. I got the latest blast of "ice cold service" for
asking to take the models now and pay for them as they weren't prepared
to send them to me until the New Year. I was told not to use the
service if I was going to ask to pick them up in the shop. Well what I
am supposed to do? Trying to reserve anything in the shop is virtually
impossible because the staff are so disinterested in lifting a finger to
be helpful. To support my case I note there was a printed sign advising
those who had mail ordered the Citaro models that they would not be sent
until January and that if people wished they could collect them now!
The very thing I was told not to do is now officially sanctioned.

Then during the melee on Thursday the girl serving downstairs was very
pleasant, laughing and joking with my wife. Maybe I've just been lucky
but it seems to me that there's been something of a "sea change" since
the move. I hope so anyway.

Keep hoping but I fear you will be disappointed.

Once in a while I would like to be treated as a customer rather than a
hindrance to their social life.
Yes had that in the old place.......

Not at all surprised.

I also don't appreciate being "told off"
for the inadequacies of their mail order system that takes months to
send out models [1] or being required to seek out other members of staff
because they can't be bothered to talk to each other.
And that!

Not at all surprised.

[1] I can order models from Hong Kong that take 1 week to arrive despite
travelling thousands of miles.
Yes, having obtained the relevant forms for the Mail Order service, I
have to say it does seen *very* cumbersome and complex. Ordering from
online services is *much* easier. But then I like to support the shop,
I'm often free for a while in Covent Garden and I get the discount as a
Friend.

Yes I like to support it too but not at any price. I get a discount as a
member of staff but there are limits to my organisational or financial
loyalty. I spend a small fortune in there and expect decent service.

Having seen the queues for the models on Saturday afternoon, I did
wonder though how many were actually produced and were we all "duped" a
bit?! :-)) Alistair Stewart, offering a model as a prize on London
Tonight on Friday said that 6,000 had been produced. The girl in the
shop told my wife that they had 300 to sell per day. Even allowing for
300 of each model and assuming that 6,000 meant 3,000 of each, that
still gives a total of only 900 sold in the shop and 2,100 "spare". Or
maybe the figures are wrong.

I understood that there were 1,000 of each thus roundly limiting the
allocation to about 700 models in total per day. This would match the
comment made to your wife. I would be amazed if there were spares other
than the third model which is delayed until next year.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Having read this thread with interest, and having queued for almost 2
hours on Thursday (unsuccessfully, I might add!), I can give the
following observations:-

(a) Yes, Mike Walton, the manager is VERY helpful, but constrained by
his "political masters" (his words, not mine),

(b) Mike Walton is very put upon, having a genuine wish to help real
enthusiasts but prevented from doing more by others (although not
expressly stated, including his staff);

(c) He does NOT read this group ("There's so much to do in the Shop, I
just don't have the time")

(d) A combination of T.F.L. (who disliked intensely the very concept of
commemorating the last RM) and EFE (who seem to have genuine capacity
problems) limited the TOTAL output of these 2 special RML models to
1000 of each;

(e) The official line is that the Shop "lacked the logistics" to either
stock more than 300 models per day or handle the sales in any other way
than have the idiotic queues that were seen on all 3 days;

(f) The Covent Garden authorities were less than pleased at the way
this was handled, since 300 or more people queuing around the gallery
of the lower-floor artistes' performing area harmed trade generally for
those 3 days;

(g) It was T.F.L. who forbade firstly a stall at Streatham Bus Garage
and then at Telford Road - ostensibly because of "health and safety"
but in reality because of the point made in (d) above.

And finally, to the utter consternation of one of those same (upstairs)
"unhelpful" staff, they had their biggest sale ever just ahead of me in
the Friday evening queue: a man demanding to buy a real Routemaster:
eventually they put him through to Ensignbus on the Shop telephone and
as I left he was giving his credit card details to secure the sale!

Marc.

On 11 Dec 2005 04:48:08 -0800, "
wrote:

Having read this thread with interest, and having queued for almost 2
hours on Thursday (unsuccessfully, I might add!), I can give the
following observations:-

(a) Yes, Mike Walton, the manager is VERY helpful, but constrained by
his "political masters" (his words, not mine),

He has said something similar to me.

(b) Mike Walton is very put upon, having a genuine wish to help real
enthusiasts but prevented from doing more by others (although not
expressly stated, including his staff);

I don't doubt his wish to help. I might question the rest of the remark
- he is the manager after all.

(d) A combination of T.F.L. (who disliked intensely the very concept of
commemorating the last RM) and EFE (who seem to have genuine capacity
problems) limited the TOTAL output of these 2 special RML models to
1000 of each;

You keep saying TfL dislike the concept of commemoration. They've done
some very strange things then given this apparent dislike. Where do you
get this view from?

(e) The official line is that the Shop "lacked the logistics" to either
stock more than 300 models per day or handle the sales in any other way
than have the idiotic queues that were seen on all 3 days;

Well there is a limit to their storage space but there is still storage
space in the main museum that is accessible. I know this because that is
where they held my Sunstar RMC until I was able to collect it.

(f) The Covent Garden authorities were less than pleased at the way
this was handled, since 300 or more people queuing around the gallery
of the lower-floor artistes' performing area harmed trade generally for
those 3 days;

They can't have it both ways if you take on board Ian's remarks about
exercising a lot of control of the area. If they didn't want queues
around this area they should have facilitated other arrangements. If
they weren't prepared to help then tough. As I suspect the Museum shop
is the most successful retail outlet in the whole piazza then I think
they have little to complain about. The Museum brings a considerable
"foot fall" to the area which makes it attractive to the retailers who
decide to pay the rents to have a presence in the area.

(g) It was T.F.L. who forbade firstly a stall at Streatham Bus Garage
and then at Telford Road - ostensibly because of "health and safety"
but in reality because of the point made in (d) above.

Odd then that there was a stand selling models, books and magazines at
Streatham on Thursday then. If it was banned I don't see how it was
still there by early afternoon - if it was a problem I'm sure the police
would have closed it down. As for Telford Avenue - well this is an
operational garage on a very busy stretch of road. With the best will in
the world I cannot see how a stand could be organised there without
there being congestion and accident risks or else disruption to Arriva's
operations that would ripple across an area of South London thus
inconveniencing a lot of people.

And finally, to the utter consternation of one of those same (upstairs)
"unhelpful" staff, they had their biggest sale ever just ahead of me in
the Friday evening queue: a man demanding to buy a real Routemaster:
eventually they put him through to Ensignbus on the Shop telephone and
as I left he was giving his credit card details to secure the sale!

I don't doubt the staff have difficult people to deal with but they
could be a damn sight more helpful and pleasant *consistently* than they
are. And yes I do know what it is like dealing with the great general
public at times before that particular comment is thrown back in my
face.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

(b) Mike Walton is very put upon, having a genuine wish to help real
enthusiasts but prevented from doing more by others (although not
expressly stated, including his staff);


"I don't doubt his wish to help. I might question the rest of the
remark
- he is the manager after all. "


Yes, but T.F.L. ultimately control the purse-strings, which is the
point I think he was making.


"You keep saying TfL dislike the concept of commemoration. They've done

some very strange things then given this apparent dislike. Where do
you
get this view from? "

Well, it's something I suspected anyway but it was confirmed by the
comments that came from Mike Walton, words like "the whole thing has
become so mired in controversy", referring to the 2-day commemoration
and "T.F.L. put a limit on the numbers of models".

(g) It was T.F.L. who forbade firstly a stall at Streatham Bus Garage
and then at Telford Road - ostensibly because of "health and safety"
but in reality because of the point made in (d) above.


"Odd then that there was a stand selling models, books and magazines at

Streatham on Thursday then. If it was banned I don't see how it was
still there by early afternoon - if it was a problem I'm sure the
police
would have closed it down. As for Telford Avenue - well this is an
operational garage on a very busy stretch of road. With the best will
in
the world I cannot see how a stand could be organised there without
there being congestion and accident risks or else disruption to
Arriva's
operations that would ripple across an area of South London thus
inconveniencing a lot of people. "

I was at Streatham on Thursday and didn't see any stall. But, (and I
don't doubt what you say) there was one earlier, I presume it was not
the Museum's stall and may have been established "illegally" and later
closed down by T.F.L. when they found out what was happening. In any
event, would this not have constiuted illegal street trading if no
licence had been obtained?

In the end, given the massive numbers of people outside Brixton Garage,
and the fact that the road was closed for half an hour or longer, I
don't think that a sales stand would have made that much difference.
Memory is a fickle jade, but do I not recall that there were some sales
stands at Barking on 7th April 1979? I certainly bought a commemorative
postal cover there that day.

"I don't doubt the staff have difficult people to deal with but they
could be a damn sight more helpful and pleasant *consistently* than
they
are. "

I agree: I normally have as little verbal contact with them as humanly
possible. Mr. Walton is an exception and he was most apologetic on
Friday for the model debacle, saying "we are a public service after
all".

Marc.