One of my two little angels has to travel on 2 routes to school in the
Norwood area. She is 11 and looks a bit older. She is having no problems on
one the routes she travels on but the 410 is becoming problematical.

Having recently travelled a fair bit in the post scholl timeslot around the
Norwood and Croydon areas I can see that the bus drivers must be under a
hell of a lot of extra pressure since the change to free travel. The buses
do generally seem to be being used as extended playgrounds and some of the
behaviour was mind boggling. I encourage my little darling to behave and
always ensure she gets home as quickly as possible and is not hanging
around, something I back up by unanounced arriavals at her bus stop !. I
picked her up from school a few days ago and was amazed at the abuse she
recieved from the driver. I deleiberately kept quiet until my daughter gave
the game away !. The driver was steadfastly refusing to allow some very
young girls onto the bus in front of her and she then "had a go" at my
daughter. My daughter had her school ID card but this has no age and was ( I
suppose correctly) steadfastly rejected. I then intervened and the driver
did, in fairness apologise and said that the current situation was a
nightmare. The same driver had told my daughter a few days before that she
would be refused if she did not get ID.

I am getting ID this weekend and I am sure her problem will go away. This is
despite her being only 11 and well below the TFLs reccomended ages of 13/14
for older looking children. I am concerned though that a number of young and
innocent (!) children are being left behind at bus stops. Although from what
I witnessed recently I can see the dilemna the drivers are in. I noticed
that there were some notices on the 38 before it went bendy, and some other
routes that state that and persistant trouble makers will have their free
passes taken away and that they would have to buy tickets. So they are still
allowed to travel, they just have to pay to be a pain !. Is this actually
being enforced ? Are these problems London wide ? Are TFL planning any moves
to combat it ? Is there any legal responsibility on TFL / Bus operators to
convey minors or are they actually allowed to leave under 16s behind ?

Sorry its a bit long...

Fat Richard

Fat Richard wrote:
Is this actually
being enforced ?

I understand (from internal information) that there has been one
withdrawal of travel concessions so far under these powers. I have
witnessed first-hand on several occasions a reasonably compelling case
for many more.

Is there any legal responsibility on TFL / Bus operators to
convey minors or are they actually allowed to leave under 16s behind ?

Not to my knowledge, although (admittedly now out-of-date) internal LT
buses guidance to drivers has for many years included the statement
"under no circumstances should a child under 16 be left stranded". This
was in relation to guidelines for dealing with persons of any age who
are unwilling or unable to pay their fare, prior to the introduction of
free child travel.

So perhaps one can surmise that they would be less likely to be denied
travel if it was the last bus of the day than at school kicking-out
time.

"Keith Raeburn" wrote in message
oups.com...

Fat Richard wrote:
Is this actually
being enforced ?

I understand (from internal information) that there has been one
withdrawal of travel concessions so far under these powers. I have
witnessed first-hand on several occasions a reasonably compelling case
for many more.


Only one ? I don't think withdrawing their free travel privileges would stop
them getting on the bus anyway. I've seen them just get on through the back
doors of double decker buses and the drivers have just ignored them.
However, when adults do it, some drivers will turn off the engine until the
perpetrator gets off the bus.