I expect this has been discussed.before but is TFL going to do anything
about the bus jams in New Oxford Street? Last Friday we all got off a 38
at Holborn - the queue stretched from there to Oxford st, with buses
from Gower st also backed up. A big mess.

M.

Yes, hadn't you heard? They are going to create even MORE jams by
removing the last Routemasters from route 159 on Friday!

Who said ANY solution is better than NO solution?

Marc.

Yup...Most Po`Folks who actually use Buses to move about the place in London
Town generally made good and effective use of the Open Platform concept.
Contrary to the picture painted by some sections of TfL the vast majority of
these people managed to disembark without doing themselves any great harm.
Of Course some came to grief,in the same manner as Bicyclists and
Skateboarders can sometimes be seen in supine positions at various
inappropriate locations.
The difference of course is that each Individual faller began to impress the
Legal World greatly with their capability to be "Compensated" for their
injuries,pain and suffering etc...

The ability to generate a whole mess of Legal Fee`s did not,of course,enter
into the equation at all.

I still regard the open 3/4 aspect platform of a Routemaster as being
intrinsically safer than the considerably more concealed centre or front
door of a "Modern" vehicle.

Any Motorist,Cyclist,or Person in Control of Animals following a Routemaster
has a very clear view of those who are actually ON the platform AND those
who may be coming down the stairs to perform their personal Fosbury Flop
onto terra firma.
This visibility is totally absent from a modern design which of course
ensures that the Driver must take great care to get the Bus as close to the
kerb as possible in order to prevent the emerging passengers ending up as a
Spirit of Destiny on some Honda Bros handlebars.

The very real problem of passengers being "Imprisoned" on a slow moving
Doored Bus along City Streets is something which TfL`s specialists will have
to address as the Option of using a Routemaster Route is Now almost gone.

In the meantime just enjoy the on-board athmosphere.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:29:36 +0000 (UTC), marcb
wrote:

I expect this has been discussed.before but is TFL going to do anything
about the bus jams in New Oxford Street? Last Friday we all got off a 38
at Holborn - the queue stretched from there to Oxford st, with buses
from Gower st also backed up. A big mess.

You think it is bad now? Wait until the 29 goes bendy in January. There
will be 4 bendy bus routes trying to squeeze along that stretch of New
Oxford Street. It cannot work and something will have to give like
diverting the 38 via the full length of Shaftesbury Avenue. I really do
think TfL Buses have to look at this problem and do it now.

I have already noticed the Countdown times display at Leicester Square
bus stop is now out by about 100% because 24s and 29s cannot get past
bendy buses between New Oxford St and Cambridge Circus. In the past they
could ease past a 38 turning right into Shaftesbury Avenue. Now the 38s
are so long they cannot even get onto their stop at Cambridge Circus
never mind squeeze past. The traffic light timings at this junction
don't help either.

Once the 29 goes bendy and increases to a bus every 5 minutes over this
stretch (currently every 8 - yes that's another 4½ buses an hour) I
think the whole TCR / CX Rd / New Oxford St area will completely
gridlock. I think I am going to have to stop using the 24 because the 29
will also jam up the whole approach to Trafalgar Square as they will
stretch across the traffic light junctions / crossing by St Martins Lane
thus gridlocking that area as well. If the bendy buses on the 29 stand
in Great Scotland Yard then they will gridlock Whitehall as they turn
right to head north up Whitehall and into Trafalgar Square. January
should be great fun.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

Wait until the 29 goes bendy in January. There
will be 4 bendy bus routes trying to squeeze along
that stretch of New Oxford Street. It cannot work
and something will have to give like diverting
the 38 via the full length of Shaftesbury Avenue.

Thus crossing the Northern Line, and eventually Crossrail, without
interchange?

I think that there should be a contraflow bus lane southbound along the
entire length of Tottenham Court Road, and all buses should be removed from
Gower Street/Bloomsbury Street. It's ridiculous that this major shopping
street should be served in one direction and missed in the other.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Paul Corfield wrote:

I have already noticed the Countdown times display at Leicester Square
bus stop is now out by about 100% because 24s and 29s cannot get past
bendy buses between New Oxford St and Cambridge Circus. In the past they
could ease past a 38 turning right into Shaftesbury Avenue. Now the 38s
are so long they cannot even get onto their stop at Cambridge Circus
never mind squeeze past. The traffic light timings at this junction
don't help either.

I'm not convinced that buses passing buses and juggling for position is
a good thing, anyway. That in itself causes delays and danger on
Manchester's Oxford Road, which has a similar problem.

That said, Oxford St does need looking at, and I personally believe the
solution would be to divert a number of services down parallel streets
instead. I'm sure something useful could be done with the traffic
light phasing, however, and in reducing the number of conflicts by
closing off non-main side streets.

Or how about going the full hog and trying pedestrianisation? London
is rather behind most other towns and cities in doing this with main
shopping streets...

Neil

On 6 Dec 2005 01:55:28 -0800, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

I have already noticed the Countdown times display at Leicester Square
bus stop is now out by about 100% because 24s and 29s cannot get past
bendy buses between New Oxford St and Cambridge Circus. In the past they
could ease past a 38 turning right into Shaftesbury Avenue. Now the 38s
are so long they cannot even get onto their stop at Cambridge Circus
never mind squeeze past. The traffic light timings at this junction
don't help either.

I'm not convinced that buses passing buses and juggling for position is
a good thing, anyway. That in itself causes delays and danger on
Manchester's Oxford Road, which has a similar problem.

The big issue is that the s/b throat into the Cambridge Circus junction
is not wide enough to allow two flows of buses to be present - one
heading south and one heading west down Shaftesbury Av. It mattered less
when the 38 had RMs as they were narrower and shorter and thus the LFDDs
on the 24, 29 and 176 could get past. Now they cannot. It will become
bonkers when the 29 goes bendy.

That said, Oxford St does need looking at, and I personally believe the
solution would be to divert a number of services down parallel streets
instead. I'm sure something useful could be done with the traffic
light phasing, however, and in reducing the number of conflicts by
closing off non-main side streets.
Or how about going the full hog and trying pedestrianisation? London
is rather behind most other towns and cities in doing this with main
shopping streets...

I wasn't talking about Oxford Street. It has fewer buses than New Oxford
Street that currently has 171 buses per hour in the peaks scheduled
along at least part of its length. Route 134 buses pass along a short
stretch twice which adds another 12 buses an hour into the equation and
they make a "conflicting" move out from under Centrepoint to turn right
into TCR thus stopping buses heading west into Oxford Street itself.
Route 29 going bendy will add another 4½ buses to the 171 figure. You
can also chuck in 8 bph on route 1 that has to cross the w/b flow along
New Oxford Street to start its journey to Canada Water. This is a
stretch of road that has two bus stops in it and 4 sets of traffic
lights governing traffic flow into and along it. Oh and which has taxis
allowed into it at its western extremity near Centrepoint. It's madness.

As for Oxford Street itself - I don't think it currently works very well
but I remain unconvinced that pedestrianisation would offer any real
benefit. The only feasible diversionary route within a palatable walking
distance is Wigmore Street and that only deals with routes between
Marble Arch and Oxford Circus that could sensibly and safely be routed
in to the bottom of Gloucester Place and round Portman Square. There
are no alternatives for buses from East and North London that use the
section of Oxford Street between Ox Circus and TCR. Given that some of
those routes perform key trunk links in the central bus network I
struggle to quite see where you send them or how you could terminate
them at TCR or nearby. I also think Oxford Street would lose trade
without effective bus transport as I cannot see people transferring to
the Central Line for the final hop along Oxford Street.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...

This is a stretch of road that has two bus stops
in it and 4 sets of traffic lights governing traffic
flow into and along it. Oh and which has taxis
allowed into it at its western extremity near Centrepoint.

Not "allowed into it", but forced into it - taxis are not allowed to turn
left from Charing Cross Road into Oxford Street, so any taxi taking a
passenger from the east to Oxford Street must go behind Centrepoint and use
the piece of New Oxford Street you are discussing. AFA Oxford Street is
concerned, there are hardly any places where a taxi is allowed into Oxford
Street, so any taxi taking a passenger to any part of Oxford Street is
forced to drive the entire length of Oxford Street rather than take a less
congested route into the middle of it.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:13:57 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

I think that there should be a contraflow bus lane
southbound along the entire length of Tottenham
Court Road, and all buses should be removed from
Gower Street/Bloomsbury Street. It's ridiculous that
this major shopping street should be served in one
direction and missed in the other.

ISTR that TfL and Camden have plans exactly along those lines.

Good, I wonder if this is because of my suggestion to TfL? Do you know if
TfL and Westminster are acting on my other suggestion for a northbound bus
lane in Baker Street?

Other plans exist for fiddling about with the direction
of Bloomsbury Way and the end of Theobalds Road
to provide a contra flow bus lane all along there thus
moving the 38 (and possibly 19 and 55) away from
Holborn Station in both directions.

That's silly. If anything, they should be looking to reroute those buses so
they serve Holborn tube in both directions.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In article .com,
() wrote:

Yes, hadn't you heard? They are going to create even MORE jams by
removing the last Routemasters from route 159 on Friday!

Who said ANY solution is better than NO solution?

To be fair, I used to see Routemasters on the 38 bypassing the jams via
Shaftesbury Avenue as I see bendies on the 38 doing the same.

--
Colin Rosenstiel