More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line was
closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow Express was
supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the Underground system
it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6 Travelcards WERE valid on the
Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on them
for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets at £14.
I personally warned at least two intending passengers from using these
and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket office, thus
saving each person more than £7. Then I pretended I wanted to purchase
a ticket from the HEX ticket office and I was told it would cost £14
the same as the machines. I then mentioned the misleading signs to
three blue-uniformed HEX staff, who responded by walking off laughing;
not their problem.

Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.

So much for Travelcards being valid. So much for HEX / BAA customer
service. Rip-off Britain strikes again.

CJB

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

HEX tickets don't suddenly stop being available when that happens. Heathrow
Express are not obliged to stop selling their tickets and accept travelcards
as the main ticket. All they have to do is let you travel on travelcards.
Of course their machines don't issue tfl travelcards - they're hex machines,
not tfl.

I think you've completely misunderstood what tfl and HEX were doing that
day. No wonder the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

dave

"CJB" wrote in message
oups.com...
Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line was
closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow Express was
supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the Underground system
it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6 Travelcards WERE valid on the
Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on them
for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets at £14.
I personally warned at least two intending passengers from using these
and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket office, thus
saving each person more than £7. Then I pretended I wanted to purchase
a ticket from the HEX ticket office and I was told it would cost £14
the same as the machines. I then mentioned the misleading signs to
three blue-uniformed HEX staff, who responded by walking off laughing;
not their problem.

Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.

So much for Travelcards being valid. So much for HEX / BAA customer
service. Rip-off Britain strikes again.

CJB

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

In oups.com,
CJB typed:

... we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express.

I travelled on Heathrow Express with a Z1-6 ODTC on Sunday as I have
done several times when the facility has been available. The only signs
that I saw said that Travelcards other than Z1-6 were not valid.

Are you sure you are not mistaken? Did you take a photo of one of these
notices so that you could send it to TfL to complain that Heathrow
Express were not acting as contracted to do.


--
Bob

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"d" wrote in message
. ..


I think you've completely misunderstood what tfl and HEX were doing that
day. No wonder the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves to yell 'rip-off' at every
possible opportunity.

CJB, HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make money for its
shareholders and to pay its staff. Business is business.

Ian

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In oups.com,
CJB typed:

... we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express.

I travelled on Heathrow Express with a Z1-6 ODTC on Sunday as I have done
several times when the facility has been available. The only signs that I
saw said that Travelcards other than Z1-6 were not valid.

Are you sure you are not mistaken? Did you take a photo of one of these
notices so that you could send it to TfL to complain that Heathrow Express
were not acting as contracted to do.

They're only contracted to accept the tickets on the service, not to sell
them as the only tickets on the service... I don't think CJB realises the
arrangement is to allow LUL travellers the ability to travel, not to turn
HEX into a branch of the underground for one weekend.


--
Bob

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

CJB wrote:

Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line was
closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow Express was
supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the Underground system
it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6 Travelcards WERE valid on the
Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on them
for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets at £14.
I personally warned at least two intending passengers from using these
and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket office, thus
saving each person more than £7. Then I pretended I wanted to purchase
a ticket from the HEX ticket office and I was told it would cost £14
the same as the machines. I then mentioned the misleading signs to
three blue-uniformed HEX staff, who responded by walking off laughing;
not their problem.

Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.

I assume you did a full survey and kindly distributed compensation
forms, or at least, told the passengers so?

So much for Travelcards being valid. So much for HEX / BAA customer
service. Rip-off Britain strikes again.

[I'd love to snip, but can't think of a decent way of doing it without
losing the points I'm commenting on]

Given that you said you "pretended" to buy a HEx ticket, how did you
get back from Paddington to Heathrow? On your travelcard? Thereby
showing that Travelcards were valid. If you did have to buy a HEx
ticket then they have reneged on the advertised agreement and you have
a case to take up with TfL and HEx. A compo form should be available by
writing to them.

Otherwise, you can't blame HEx for not actively advertising the fact
that Travelcards are valid on their service. Do you see taxis outside
LHR with the bus fare printed on their sides?

AE

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

CJB wrote:
snip
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.
/snip

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

John Band wrote:

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12598536.html
(57 601 at Stableford, 6 Jan 2005)

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

John Band wrote:
CJB wrote:
snip
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.
/snip

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?


Are you suggesting that travelcards are only available to people who
live in London, or that only people who live in London use the
Piccadilly Line to get to and from Heathrow?

The real question here is how much did TfL compensate HEX for taking
their passengers. HEX might have felt it reasonable to assume that
anyone who knew anything would take advantage of the situation and get
a travelcard instead of the HEX ticket they might have got, ie that TfL
should compensate them for every passenger they carried.

If they charged TfL on that basis, then there is a hint of ripoff if
they made every effort to disguise the availability of travelcards.
But did they? Does anyone know?

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Martin Underwood wrote:

If the signs said that travelcards were not valid (which I think is what you
are saying) when in fact they were valid, then passenger were being wrongly
advised to buy the more expensive ticket. It's one thing not to advertise
and promote the cheaper ticket (though that's bad enough); it's another
thing entirely to give explicit information that cons people into buying a
more expensive ticket that they don't need.

As I recall, the Paddington PIS displays show the above note.
Presumably someone forgot to reprogram them.

It's a difficult one, really... I would suggest the best option would
be to make Travelcards valid on Heathrow Connect only, and not on HEx.
That way, the premium product could remain.

Neil

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

CJB wrote:
Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line
was closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow
Express was supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the
Underground system it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6
Travelcards WERE valid on the Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on
them for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets
at £14. I personally warned at least two intending passengers from
using these and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket
office, thus saving each person more than £7.

In the full list of tickets accepted on HEx on Piccadilly closure
weekends at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...nd-closure.asp , it
specifically says *LU* Zone 1-6 Travelcards. I'm not sure if that means
that FGWL-issued Travelcards are not valid. I hope the people who took
your advice didn't get stung for a £14 fare on top of an FGWL
Travelcard.

[...]
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to
rip-off Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare
tickets into London? Probably most of them.

If they went to the HEx desk at Heathrow, they would be charged the HEx
fare. If they went to the LU station they would be advised to buy a
Z1-6 Travelcard there and then walk round the corner to the HEx station
and get on a HEx train (or HC to Ealing Broadway). At least that's what
happened last year at T123; I haven't experienced T4 on such weekends.

LU pay HEx so that LU's passengers can travel on HEx without further
charge. There's no reason why they should also subsidise people who
were going to buy a HEx ticket in the first place, nor are such people
being ripped off.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

Rumour has it there will be, when the bomb drops. To keep the
contaminated hordes IN.

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

John Band wrote:
Chris Tolley wrote:

John Band wrote:
Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

Not Londoners. London Underground users.
There are not yet border controls at the M25.

True. And nor is the Greater London boundary at the M25...

However, the original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on
HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into
paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...


But they are still allowed to travel into London by the Piccadilly
Line.

Another question is, was the TfL station at Heathrow open and selling
travelcards that new arrivals in London were directed to buy if they
were planning to travel elsewhere than just to Paddington that day?

Or would such people be directed to the only station that was open and
buy the only tickets available?

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called "fraud".

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

In ,
d typed:

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
In oups.com,
CJB typed:

... we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express.

I travelled on Heathrow Express with a Z1-6 ODTC on Sunday as I have
done several times when the facility has been available. The only
signs that I saw said that Travelcards other than Z1-6 were not
valid. Are you sure you are not mistaken? Did you take a photo of
one of
these notices so that you could send it to TfL to complain that
Heathrow Express were not acting as contracted to do.

They're only contracted to accept the tickets on the service, not to
sell them as the only tickets on the service... I don't think CJB
realises the arrangement is to allow LUL travellers the ability to
travel, not to turn HEX into a branch of the underground for one
weekend.


But he said that there were notices saying that TravelCards were not
valid. I don't think I believe him.

--
Bob

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Martin Underwood" wrote:

I'd like to see all ticket offices run by a separate, impartial company
which was on the side of the passenger and which was obliged by law always
to sell the cheapest ticket or combination of tickets so that a passenger
can say "can you sell me a ticket [implied "the cheapest ticket"] between
A
and B", without needing to be an expert on the ticketing system in order
to
get the best deal.

Not everyone wants the cheapest ticket. Many people value their time more
than their money, and hence travel by fGW to Exeter, rather than the scenic
tour of Dorset villages that SWT provide for half the price.

Self-evidently, people who routinely travel First Class don't want the
cheapest ticket.

The cheap fares are there for the asking. People who know nothing about rail
travel are, of course, at a disadvantage, but then people who know nothing
lose out in all sorts of ways - that's life.

I'm more concerned about booking office staff who flatly deny that certain
ticket types exist, because either they've not been trained, or it's too
much hassle to look up the correct sequence of key strokes to press.

Chris

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Bob Wood" wrote in
:



But he said that there were notices saying that TravelCards were not
valid. I don't think I believe him.


None of the standard displays had been changed. The main indicator at
Paddington was certainly stating "Travelcards not valid", as were the
(automatic) train announcments. I think the platform indicators were as
well.

I overheard one mobile conversation along the lines of "I'm going to be
late and I've just forked out £ 16.00 rather than take two hours at get to
Hammersmith".

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

John Band wrote:
The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at Heathrow,
went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on HEX
irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into paying
for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad, and I
had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to spend any
time looking for a second ticket office that might be selling more
appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to. I would expect
the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I needed without me
having to have any inside knowledge of the local situation, and I think
most real-world travellers would agree it's a reasonable expectation.

It isn't as if Londoners actually gain anything (other than a perverse
pleasure at the misfortune of others) if visitors pay more than they
need to in such circumstances as this.

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

My understanding is HEX are not paid when the Pic line goes down, just
as Pic aren't paid when HEX (occasionally) goes down and passengers
have to move on to the blue line.


Ross
--
The Smoke
http://www.the-smoke.com

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Richard J. wrote:

In the full list of tickets accepted on HEx on Piccadilly closure
weekends at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/travelinf...nd-closure.asp , it
specifically says *LU* Zone 1-6 Travelcards. I'm not sure if that means
that FGWL-issued Travelcards are not valid. I hope the people who took
your advice didn't get stung for a £14 fare on top of an FGWL
Travelcard.

It's badly worded. *All* 1-6 Day Travelcards are accepted (I have no
idea if seasons are or not).

Neil

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

On 17 Jan 2006 08:28:36 -0800, CJB wrote:

Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line was
closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow Express was
supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the Underground system
it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6 Travelcards WERE valid on the
Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was

I was in London this weekend. I had come from Lancashire, where we eat
lots of lard, carry a pigeon in our trousers at all times, and find
sentences with two negatives in them impossible to understand.

Although I had no idea about the engineering works before I arrived in
London, I quickly found several informative leaflets and posters explaining
the situation quite clearly, and was able to work out a different route to
where I was going.
--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest achievement of the thinkers of the Sixties was
to convince their audience that incomprehensibility was the
sign of greatness.

Luc Ferry and Alain Renault

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Chris Tolley wrote:
John Band wrote:

The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at Heathrow,
went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have travelled on HEX
irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were "conned into paying
for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...


I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad, and I
had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to spend any
time looking for a second ticket office that might be selling more
appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to. I would expect
the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I needed without me
having to have any inside knowledge of the local situation, and I think
most real-world travellers would agree it's a reasonable expectation.

It isn't as if Londoners actually gain anything (other than a perverse
pleasure at the misfortune of others) if visitors pay more than they
need to in such circumstances as this.

Good will has to be worth something. I still remember the time I turned
up at the NIR station in Londonderry (it was on the east side of the
river, the signs on the west side all said Derry, I know I'm going to
offend someone no matter how I write the name), asked for a ticket to
Belfast, and the woman told me that a day return would be cheaper. This
was 1992.

I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.

If I'm sold a HEX ticket when a travelcard would have worked, I wouldn't
call it a ripoff (a ripoff is when a waiter in Paris tried to charge me
the menu price *plus* the prices of all the individual items); it's
more of a passive-aggressive display, somewhere between indifference and
contempt. Things can't be that bad, can they? Or was it a HEX
management decision not to tell anyone?

We don't get nearly as many tourists here in the backwaters of Colorado
as you do in the UK, but I try to be helpful when I can. When I struck
up a conversation with a New Zealander I met on the bus in Denver and
learned that he was on his way to the old location of the American Youth
Hostel, I informed him that the Hostel had moved, the original
building had been adopted by the Moonies, and perhaps he'd like
directions to the new location. It was the right thing to do.

Louis
Boulder, Colorado

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Chris Tolley wrote:
John Band wrote:
The original post was talking about tourists who arrived at
Heathrow, went to the HEX ticket office (ie who would have
travelled on HEX irrespective of the possible cheap fare) and were
"conned into paying for full fare tickets into London".

I would suggest these are not the people that TfL's programme was
designed to benefit, and that I don't see any reason why Londoners'
taxes should subsidise their journey into town...

I note the suggestion but disagree. If I were travelling abroad,
and I had just arrived at an airport, I doubt I would be minded to
spend any time looking for a second ticket office that might be
selling more appropriate tickets than the first one that I came to.
I would expect the first ticket office to be able to sell me what I
needed without me having to have any inside knowledge of the local
situation, and I think most real-world travellers would agree it's
a reasonable expectation.

It is indeed, but I fail to see where this expectation differs from what
incoming travellers were faced with at Heathrow at the weekend. If they
arrived at the Underground station they would have been sold a
Travelcard, and if they arrived at HEx they would have bought a HEx
ticket at the price they expected for that service. Air travellers are
used to travelling in the same section of the plane with others who have
paid different fares to them because they happen to have booked through
a different agent or at a different time.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:57 -0700, Louis Krupp wrote:

I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.


Hello Louis

I used to work as a ticket collector on London Underground, and one thing I
noticed about visitors from north America is that they would often truncate
the station name they wanted directions for. So for example, they often
asked me for the way to "Liverpool".

After a while you realise they mean the tube station "Liverpool Street",
but "Liverpool" is a large city in northwest England, so the question is a
bit ambiguous. I mean, you're doing it yourself there, by saying you were
asking the way to "Glasgow", when what I presume you meant was "Glasgow
Queen Street" :) It would be good if visitors from the US and Canada could
be encouraged to use the full names of the stations they want to go to.

I'm surprised about your experience in Glasgow though. That must just have
been bad luck, because I go up there often and my experience is that people
in Glasgow are generally very helpful and honest.
--
Cliff Laine, The Old Lard Factory, Lancaster http://www.loobynet.com
* remove any trace of rudeness before you reply *
------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest achievement of the thinkers of the Sixties was
to convince their audience that incomprehensibility was the
sign of greatness.

Luc Ferry and Alain Renault

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Louis Krupp wrote:

Chris Tolley wrote:
John Band wrote:

We don't get nearly as many tourists here in the backwaters of Colorado
as you do in the UK, but I try to be helpful when I can. When I struck
up a conversation with a New Zealander I met on the bus in Denver and
learned that he was on his way to the old location of the American Youth
Hostel, I informed him that the Hostel had moved, the original
building had been adopted by the Moonies, and perhaps he'd like
directions to the new location. It was the right thing to do.

Louis
Boulder, Colorado

Louis, the hospitality you mention seems to be local trait. We spent 3
weeks in Colorado back in Summer 2005. One only had to glance at a
directional sign when walking around in Denver, Golden or Boulder to
have a local person stop and ask if one needed any help. Boulder in
particular has a very unique character. Found my favourite shop in your
"high street" called "Into The Wind", I've never seen so many kits and
frisbees in one place, very colourful! The bus interchange was another
example of local hospitality. I accidentally put a $20 bill into the
automated machine by the driver instead of a five. The driver spotted
the mistake but the machine is a sealed unit. Other locals behind me in
the queue boarded for free at the drivers bidding and gave me their
fares to make up the difference. We made several friends in the short
time we were there, can't wait to go back.

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Its called good old fashioned courtesy... offer a helping hand and
assist the traveller by not taking more of his hard earned than you
have to - in the hope that when you are in the same situation you will
receive the same treatment. If that is what you are looking for then
don't go HEX obviously

Several posts above make me realise why I have such a jaundiced view of
business ethics today, and why running the privatised railway costs
five times the cost of running the unified one.

Incidentally Jon did you visit the Cumbres and Toltec. If you did -on
the way to the Lobato trestle is a field from which anice shot of the
viaductis possible. On the fence is a sign that says "posted"

I was told later in Chama that it means the land owner has the right to
shoot people who pass the sign!!

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

loobyloo wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:56:57 -0700, Louis Krupp wrote:


I also recall the time (I don't remember the year) when I went to a
ticket window at Glasgow Central, asked about a train to Glasgow, and
was told the next one would leave in a couple of hours. So I waited. I
learned about the 15-minute walk to Glasgow Queen Street on a later trip.



Hello Louis

I used to work as a ticket collector on London Underground, and one thing I
noticed about visitors from north America is that they would often truncate
the station name they wanted directions for. So for example, they often
asked me for the way to "Liverpool".

After a while you realise they mean the tube station "Liverpool Street",
but "Liverpool" is a large city in northwest England, so the question is a
bit ambiguous. I mean, you're doing it yourself there, by saying you were
asking the way to "Glasgow", when what I presume you meant was "Glasgow
Queen Street" :) It would be good if visitors from the US and Canada could
be encouraged to use the full names of the stations they want to go to.

I'm surprised about your experience in Glasgow though. That must just have
been bad luck, because I go up there often and my experience is that people
in Glasgow are generally very helpful and honest.

My mistake in my previous post -- I showed up at Glasgow Central wanting
to go to Edinburgh (not Glasgow, as I originally said). Sorry about
that. (Wait two hours was an honest answer, follow the signs to Queen
Street would have been more helpful. Still, I got where I was going.)

You're right about Glaswegians, though. One of them is (or at least
was) a police officer in Nederland, Colorado. Great guy.

Louis

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

On 17 Jan 2006 08:28:36 -0800, "CJB"
wrote:

Last weekend, actually on Sunday, the Underground Piccadilly Line was
closed between London and Heathrow. However the Heathrow Express was
supposed to be an alternative. Indeed throughout the Underground system
it was widely advertised that Zone 1-6 Travelcards WERE valid on the
Heathrow Express to/from Paddington.

HOWEVER after a day in London, and arriving at Paddington to travel
back to Heathrow, we saw numerous displays clearly stating that
Travelcards were NOT valid on the Heathrow Express. The scam was
extended in that the HEX ticket machines had no warning notices on them
for that day, and they were only dispensing full fare tickets at =A314.
I personally warned at least two intending passengers from using these
and sent them to get Travelcards from the FGWL ticket office, thus
saving each person more than =A37. Then I pretended I wanted to purchase
a ticket from the HEX ticket office and I was told it would cost =A314
the same as the machines. I then mentioned the misleading signs to
three blue-uniformed HEX staff, who responded by walking off laughing;
not their problem.

Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.

So much for Travelcards being valid. So much for HEX / BAA customer
service. Rip-off Britain strikes again.=20

CJB

I (and several friends) travelled HEX on Saturday morning and saw the
"Travelcards Not Valid" sign.

A simple and polite enquiry to the barrier staff confirmed they were
valid and that the display was the "standard sign".

What surprised me much more was the total absence of signs at Heathrow
regarding Connect services. These trains seem to sneak in to the
platform at T123, with a verbal annoucement that "this train is not
for London Paddington". some people get on, but almost all then get
off again when they hear the anouncement. The first Connect train we
caught had "Not In Service" as its front Matrix display.

No wonder nobody uses them...

JohnK

p.s. On Saturday, it was true that the Connect services weren't for
London Paddington as the were all terminating at Ealing Broadway due
to engineering works on the Releifs at OOC.

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

In message .com,
writes
I accidentally put a $20 bill into the automated machine by the driver
instead of a five. The driver spotted the mistake but the machine is a
sealed unit. Other locals behind me in the queue boarded for free at
the drivers bidding and gave me their fares to make up the difference.

That used to happen on the WMPTE Autofare Exact Fare buses here in
Birmingham when they were first introduced. And passengers behind were
happy to help.

Somewhere along the line passengers and drivers all became much less
helpful and more aggressive and now any visitor without the correct
change is made to feel in the way and as though they're holding things
up. Or they over pay. *Very* occasionally thought I have seen
drivers just wave such people on for a free ride!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"d" wrote in message
. ..

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged
over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.

You'll never get them to understand. Some people think businesses exist
solely to do them favours. I'd like to see how *they'd* run a business!
;-)

Ian

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.


--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"John Band" wrote in message
oups.com...
CJB wrote:
snip
Then we saw a HEX train arriving at Paddington and it was
unsurprisingly full. We wondered how many tourists, visitors to rip-off
Britain, had also been conned into paying for full fare tickets into
London? Probably most of them.
/snip

Good. They don't contribute to TfL from their taxes, so why should they
benefit from a subsidy programme designed to reduce the financial
expense to Londoners of the Picc closure?

What a load of tosh. Tourists may not pay income tax, but they will be
paying VAT on everything they consume whilst in the UK, and they are also
one of the main forms of inward trade in the UK, so everything should be
done to treat them well.


--
John Band
e: john at johnband dot org
w: www.johnband.org

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Mikael Armstrong wrote:
"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.
He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.
He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.
HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business
Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".
They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.

Actually, I don't think HEx receives any subsidy from the tax payer -
its construction and running costs were/are entirely funded by BAA, as
it's an "open access" operator.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

d wrote:
I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket.
They aren't. They are complaining that the information that may have
enabled people to do so was not available at all ticket outlets.

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a
really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one
was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare. They
would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube, turned up
at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they paid the full
HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper fare available.
Having arrived at Paddington, they may even have bought a ODTC to
continue their journey, thus being overcharged by the entire amount of
the (unnecessary in their circumstances) HEx ticket.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104763.html
(37 689, 37 668, 37 712 and 37 710 at Warrington Arpley, 21 Apr 2005)

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Mikael Armstrong" wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Ian F." wrote in message
...
"d" wrote in message
. ..

I think you've completely misunderstood what
tfl and HEX were doing that day. No wonder
the ticket agents laughed at you :) it's very funny.

He's just so typical of anyone who loves
to yell 'rip-off' at every possible opportunity.

He's right!

HEX is not a philanthropic society - it's there to make
money for its shareholders and to pay its staff.

HEx were presumably paid for all of the passengers who would use
travelcards
on that day, but then chose to lie to passengers in order to get more
money
from them.

Business is business

Obtaining money by deception is not called "business", it's called
"fraud".

They weren't deceiving anyone. The use of travelcards was permitted on
the
service - travelcards didn't replace the HEX tickets.

I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket. No-one was
ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a really good
value
ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one was charged over the
fare - I don't get what the problem is.

Can't you? The first choice cheaper route was closed. so there was no
alternative. All these rail services are operated with a subsidy from the
tax payer, so they should be a public service. Public services should be
operated in the interests of the public. Having private companies run a
service without competition is a farce.


Really? How much subsidy did/do HEX receive?

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

"Chris Tolley" wrote in message
...
d wrote:
I don't see why people are complaining they were allowed to travel on an
fast, expensive train for the cost of an underground ticket.
They aren't. They are complaining that the information that may have
enabled people to do so was not available at all ticket outlets.

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got a
really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare. No-one
was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare. They
would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube, turned up
at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they paid the full
HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper fare available.
Having arrived at Paddington, they may even have bought a ODTC to
continue their journey, thus being overcharged by the entire amount of
the (unnecessary in their circumstances) HEx ticket.

And they can fill in a compensation form, submit it to TfL, and wait for
some money to be sent to them :)

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104763.html
(37 689, 37 668, 37 712 and 37 710 at Warrington Arpley, 21 Apr 2005)

More HEX Shenanigans - ripoff Britain?
 

Chris Tolley wrote:

No-one was ripped off, no-one was defrauded. Some people just got
a really good value ticket, while others paid the correct fare.
No-one was charged over the fare - I don't get what the problem is.
There *may have been* some people charged over the correct fare.
They would have been the people who had intended to travel by Tube,
turned up at the Tube, found it closed, and went to HEx where they
paid the full HEx fare without being told that there was a cheaper
fare available.

People who had intended to travel by Tube would have found the Tube
station *open* (for the service to Acton Town), but there would have
been lots of staff at the entrance to advise those who wanted to go to
central London that if they bought a Travelcard from LU, it would be
valid on HEx. At least, that's what happened last year. I wasn't there
this time, and it seems you weren't either.

If you want BAA to offer the concession to their passengers as well, who
do you propose should foot the bill and why?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)