Mizter T wrote:
Simon Wren wrote:

Paul Scott wrote:

http://www.gnn.gov.uk/environment/fu...eID=187553&New
sAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False

The new concessionaire will have to release stock for two routes not
being transferred - what are these?

Paul

And to see TFL's positive plans for these valuable routes:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...t.asp?prID=690



This sounds like great news. Using the North London Line can be
depressing. The trains are squalid and it's quite clear that Silverlink
couldn't give a damn. The line is interesting from a railway point of
view, but as a passenger it's certainly not a great travelling
experience.

The fact that Tube stations are staffed and are generally friendly and
welcoming places, as opposed to many railway stations, really makes a
difference to how people choose to travel, particularly in the
evenings/after dark. TfL's plans staff stations, or staff them later,
along with a proactive attitude to custodianship of stations and trains
will really make a difference I'm sure.

I doubt the NLL will ever make a profit, but thankfully that's not the
objective of the Mayor. I look forward to TfL's further involvement in
London's railways.


So does this all mean that TfL simply takes over the existing
franchise, with 313s and 508s still going Euston to Watford and
Bakerloo still going from Queens Park to Harrow?

That's not quite in line with previous discussion of the Bakerloo
taking over the Watford service.

I had visions of maybe relaying the fourth rail to Watford, and (less
likely) keeping a service to South Hampsted and Kilburn High Road by
installing a connection east of Queens Park, allowing trains from
Euston to call at those stations, then use the unused platforms at
Queens Park to allow for interchange, and then proceed semifast to
Watford or beyond.

On 14 Feb 2006 14:37:40 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

So does this all mean that TfL simply takes over the existing
franchise, with 313s and 508s still going Euston to Watford and
Bakerloo still going from Queens Park to Harrow?

Initially, yes. The press release says new trains will be delivered
within 5 years (it's not clear whether that's 5 years from the date of
the press release or the transfer of control).

That's not quite in line with previous discussion of the Bakerloo
taking over the Watford service.

According to the previous discussion, that's supposed to happen in
2010.

I had visions of maybe relaying the fourth rail to Watford, and (less
likely) keeping a service to South Hampsted and Kilburn High Road by
installing a connection east of Queens Park, allowing trains from
Euston to call at those stations, then use the unused platforms at
Queens Park to allow for interchange, and then proceed semifast to
Watford or beyond.

I take it you're assuming the Watford-Euston DC service will be axed.
Even if it is, South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road would probably
stay open because of the proposed Queens Park to Stratford service -
thus becoming "orbital" stations. Passengers for central London would
be expected to walk to Swiss Cottage and Kilburn Park respectively
(although if they're going to Euston it will take them a lot longer to
get there).

asdf wrote:
On 14 Feb 2006 14:37:40 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

So does this all mean that TfL simply takes over the existing
franchise, with 313s and 508s still going Euston to Watford and
Bakerloo still going from Queens Park to Harrow?

Initially, yes. The press release says new trains will be delivered
within 5 years (it's not clear whether that's 5 years from the date of
the press release or the transfer of control).

That's not quite in line with previous discussion of the Bakerloo
taking over the Watford service.

According to the previous discussion, that's supposed to happen in
2010.

I had visions of maybe relaying the fourth rail to Watford, and (less
likely) keeping a service to South Hampsted and Kilburn High Road by
installing a connection east of Queens Park, allowing trains from
Euston to call at those stations, then use the unused platforms at
Queens Park to allow for interchange, and then proceed semifast to
Watford or beyond.

I take it you're assuming the Watford-Euston DC service will be axed.
Even if it is, South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road would probably
stay open because of the proposed Queens Park to Stratford service -
thus becoming "orbital" stations. Passengers for central London would
be expected to walk to Swiss Cottage and Kilburn Park respectively
(although if they're going to Euston it will take them a lot longer to
get there).


Yes, I've now reread the article, which previously I was just
part-remembering.

I wonder how they will turn round trains from Stratford at Queen's Park
though? I would have thought a connection east of Queens Park would
probably be a less major work than fourth rail from Harrow to Watford,
and could be done at the same time, or just before to provide an
alternative while the latter is going on.

In article . com,
MIG wrote:
I wonder how they will turn round trains from Stratford at Queen's Park
though? I would have thought a connection east of Queens Park would
probably be a less major work than fourth rail from Harrow to Watford,
and could be done at the same time, or just before to provide an
alternative while the latter is going on.

There is a crossover on the Queens Park side of Kilburn High Road station.
This was used, in the other direction, when the line into Euston was
blocked for a while. This means that reversing at Queens Park wouldn't need
any track alterations.

--
David Wild using RISC OS on broadband

David H Wild wrote:
In article . com,
MIG wrote:
I wonder how they will turn round trains from Stratford at Queen's Park
though? I would have thought a connection east of Queens Park would
probably be a less major work than fourth rail from Harrow to Watford,
and could be done at the same time, or just before to provide an
alternative while the latter is going on.

There is a crossover on the Queens Park side of Kilburn High Road station.
This was used, in the other direction, when the line into Euston was
blocked for a while. This means that reversing at Queens Park wouldn't need
any track alterations.


It's also got fourth rail and used by the Bakerloo the Bakerloo is
disrupted in the underground section (otherwise Bakerloo trains would
block the route to Euston as well).

That would mean platform 4 being used to reverse and platform 1 not
being used at all in normal service.

I'd like to see Silverlink Metro get (easily convertable) 458s and a
new connection from DC to AC east of Queens Park, with through semifast
services Stratford/Euston to Watford or beyond, keeping SH and KHR in
use. 313s and 508s could go to the ELL where windows are less
important. That could include the 508s from Kent, which could also be
replaced by the rest of the 458s.

(Can't believe the proposals to put 458s on the ELL. It's mad to waste
100 mph air-conditioned trains with good windows on a slow commuter
line in a tunnel.)

If 458s need to be reduced in length, the excess coaches can be added
to 460s so that Gatwick Express doesn't take up so many paths. Sortid.

The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

b9273m wrote:
The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

Merseytravel are reported to be short of 508s but they have no claim on the
ones that they previously discarded. If they want them back then they are
going to have to enter into some delicate negotiation with both the ROSCO
and South Eastern Trains. It's possible that some of them may become surplus
to requirements at SET and that they may make their way back north but
nothing is confirmed. SET have a lease on them and if they say they cannot
release them then Merseytravel can do nothing about it.

BTW, as a courtesy to the *majority* of readers and posters who use these
newsgroups using newsreaders (rather than Google Groups) could you please
post, in future, by NOT using the obvious 'Reply' button but by going to the
'Show Options' function and then using the 'Reply' button from there,
quoting some of the text that you are replying to. This is a fault of Google
Groups, which seems to assume that the entire world uses it for reading and
contributing to newsgroups!

In message .com
"b9273m" wrote:

The Kent 508's are rumoured to be wanted back by
Merseytravel.................anyone know any more?

There are no firm plans as yet, but the draft Merseyside Local Transport Plan
for 2006-10 mentions opening "negotiations" to bring the 508s back to
Liverpool. It's no secret that Merseyrail want more units, chiefly to deal
with increases in passenger numbers which weren't anticipated when the 508s
were originally taken off-lease.

As another poster has pointed out, it all depends on whether SET are prepared
to release them. Will they still be required once the Integrated Kent
Franchise gets going?

--
Robert Hampton | rhmeuk [at] roberthampton me uk | www.roberthampton.me.uk
---------------'---------------------------------'------------------------

On 16 Feb 2006 04:01:10 -0800, "MIG"
wrote:

There is a crossover on the Queens Park side of Kilburn High Road station.
This was used, in the other direction, when the line into Euston was
blocked for a while. This means that reversing at Queens Park wouldn't need
any track alterations.

It's also got fourth rail and used by the Bakerloo the Bakerloo is
disrupted in the underground section (otherwise Bakerloo trains would
block the route to Euston as well).

That would mean platform 4 being used to reverse and platform 1 not
being used at all in normal service.

Or with an extra crossover, they could use platform 1 too and thus
have two platforms for reversing.

In fact ISTR talk of LU wanting to connect up platform 4 so that it
could be used by through Bakerloo trains, as terminating trains being
tipped out in platform 3 tend to cause blocking back along the line.
In that case platform 1 would be the sole terminal platform for the
NLL.