Chingford line frequency
 

A colleague of mine lives near the Liverpool Street to Chingford branch,
and is under the impression that the service has recently increased from
2tph to 4tph. He comments that the trains were previously half empty and
are now three quarters empty.

Is he correct about the increase? If so, does anyone know why One made
this rather drastic change (assuming my colleague is right about the
loadings).

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Chingford line frequency
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
A colleague of mine lives near the Liverpool Street to Chingford branch,
and is under the impression that the service has recently increased from
2tph to 4tph. He comments that the trains were previously half empty and
are now three quarters empty.

Is he correct about the increase? If so, does anyone know why One made
this rather drastic change (assuming my colleague is right about the
loadings).

It's been 4tph Mondays to Fridays for quite a time, and IIRC it's never been
less than 3tph. Saturdays has recently iuncreased from 3tph to 4tph, and
Sundays from 2tph to 4tph, presumably as part of TfL's 'Overground Network'
scheme. Are TfL subsidising the increased weekend frequency?

Before the Victoria Line was opened the line had 9tph in the peaks.

Peter

Chingford line frequency
 

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote:

A colleague of mine lives near the Liverpool Street to Chingford branch,
and is under the impression that the service has recently increased from
2tph to 4tph. He comments that the trains were previously half empty and
are now three quarters empty.

IMX the Chingford branch has never loaded very well, off-peak, between
Liverpool Street and Walthamstow Central. Often it loads better
Walthamstow - Chingford because of the interchange with the Victoria line at
the former, which draws away traffic to and from the West End.

Chris

Chingford line frequency
 

Peter Masson wrote:

"It's been 4tph Mondays to Fridays for quite a time, and IIRC it's
never been
less than 3tph. Saturdays has recently iuncreased from 3tph to 4tph,
and
Sundays from 2tph to 4tph, presumably as part of TfL's 'Overground
Network'
scheme. Are TfL subsidising the increased weekend frequency?"

Before the December timetable change there were only 2tph in the
evenings Monday to Friday. Saturday evenings were also 2tph. Sunday
evenings are still only 2tph.

Barry Buitekant

Chingford line frequency
 

I use the Liverpool Street to Clapton stretch quite often in the
evening and from my observations it does load very well. Perhaps our
definition of what loads very well differs?

Barry

Chingford line frequency
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
I use the Liverpool Street to Clapton stretch quite often in the
evening and from my observations it does load very well. Perhaps our
definition of what loads very well differs?

The GER took a passenger census in 1920 when they were planning the 'Jazz'
service. On the census day, the 6.5 pm Chingford train left Liverpool Street
with 1241 passengers, and even allowing for those who had alighted, left
Hackney Downs with 1442. Only 106 were left on the train after Wood Street.
By my definition that's a lot more than loading well, especially as the
train seems to have consisted of 16 four-wheeled coaches.

Peter

Chingford line frequency
 

On 16 Feb 2006 23:39:16 -0800, wrote:


Peter Masson wrote:

"It's been 4tph Mondays to Fridays for quite a time, and IIRC it's
never been
less than 3tph. Saturdays has recently iuncreased from 3tph to 4tph,
and
Sundays from 2tph to 4tph, presumably as part of TfL's 'Overground
Network'
scheme. Are TfL subsidising the increased weekend frequency?"

Before the December timetable change there were only 2tph in the
evenings Monday to Friday. Saturday evenings were also 2tph. Sunday
evenings are still only 2tph.

Barry Buitekant

The current service is still a pale shadow of the original electric
service.
Off-peak, 3 all-stations & 3 semi-fasts ( not Clapton or Bethnal
Green) p.h., usually 2 x 3-car sets.
Peak, 3 all-stations & 6 fasts, (1st stop. St. Jame's Street), p.h.
all 9-car trains.
The Victoria line, from 1968 onwards, took some of the load away from
Hoe St. / W. Central but it was still a busy railway.

Ex. W. Stow resident, old enough to remember the steam trains.......

DC

Chingford line frequency
 

In article , Mike Bristow
writes
A press release announcing the change to a 15 minute frequency,
dated 20051129:

http://www.onerailway.com/latestinfo...lay.asp?id=845

A brief search didn't find that.

Thanks for this and all the other responses.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Chingford line frequency
 

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:21:59 +0000, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote:

A colleague of mine lives near the Liverpool Street to Chingford branch,
and is under the impression that the service has recently increased from
2tph to 4tph. He comments that the trains were previously half empty and
are now three quarters empty.

Is he correct about the increase? If so, does anyone know why One made
this rather drastic change (assuming my colleague is right about the
loadings).

Having looked at the timetable the increase is as he describes. I have
to say I had not noticed and yet I go through Walthamstow Central every
day. The improvements such as the 15 min evening service and late trains
until 0100 are all good ideas. There is, of course, no change for M-F
peaks and daytimes except that the AM peak service to Chingford was x30
to allow 2 trains an hour to run back empty to provide the x15 service
to Liverpool St. Nice to see Saturday services back to x15 after being
hacked back to x20 when One took over.

I see from other posts that the actual implementation has been a farce.
I don't use the line very much but the improvements are a good idea -
shame they are now delayed for the best of a year due to One's
incompetence. The line can be quite busy as it provides an important
link in Waltham Forest and the Clapton / Hackney Downs stops do
reasonably well. This sort of turn up and go service coupled with a very
limited Oyster Pre-Pay availability (from W'Stow) should generate more
traffic.

As an aside I looked at the service on other Lea Valley routes and it
seems that Bethnal Green, Cambridge Heath and London Fields have all
gained a much improved weekend and evening service and also a more
balance peak / off peak service. Again trains typically every 15 minutes
as opposed to no service at times or just x30. I am pleased to see that
there is another attempt to provide a decent service from these stations
following the failure of the last initiative (Jazz Train?) back in the
80s under BR and the GLC?

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Chingford line frequency
 

On Fri, 16 Feb 2006 wrote:

I use the Liverpool Street to Clapton stretch quite often in the evening
and from my observations it does load very well.

I lived in Clapton for a year, and can second that - in the peaks, the
trains were absolutely rammed. In fact, the upward trains were packed on
arriving at Clapton, so there must be a lot of traffic from further out,
too.

Perhaps our definition of what loads very well differs?

Perhaps it's more to do with the time of day - the 4 tph in question was
off peak, and i have to admit that the trains were pretty empty outside
the peaks. Probably because the line runs to the city, which is a big
commuting destination, but not much use for anything you might want to do
off peak.

tom

--
isn't it about time we had some new label for people interested in
technology who also have an interest in drinking binges, womanising and
occasional bouts of ultra violence? -- D

Chingford line frequency
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

[snip]

Nice to see Saturday services back to x15 after being hacked back to x20 when One took over.

I don't remember the Saturday service being 15-minute intervals before
now in the 20 years I've been using the line - I'm pretty sure it
hasn't been in that period, as I use the line a fair bit at weekends. I
don't have any great desire to stick up for One, but I think this may
be a little unfair on them!

The 15-minute interval M-F service was implemented around 8-10 years
ago I would guess. Until then 20-minute intervals applied M-S daytime,
30-minute intervals after approx 19.15. M-F peak services varied from
year-to-year, typically around every 12-15 minutes.

Around 15 years ago a few ran fast from Liverpool Street to Walthamstow
St James Street in the evening peak, and I think v.v. in the morning
peak. I don't remember this lasting for more than one timetable though.

I believe Sundays have always been 30-minute intervals throughout the
day. Around five years ago there was a bus service regularly replacing
trains for whole timetable periods for various engineering works.

I can't remember what the Jazz service levels were however, and they
may well have included a 15-minute Saturday service mentioned above. I
do remember that the last remains of the all-night service (around
three trains in the overnight period) were finally removed sometime
around 1987-9.

I see from other posts that the actual implementation has been a farce.
I don't use the line very much but the improvements are a good idea -
shame they are now delayed for the best of a year due to One's
incompetence.

I couldn't agree more. The timetable was revised two weeks ago, but
rather than revert to the previous incarnation One have selectively
cancelled some services on most, if not all, West Anglia routes. The
effect of this for the Chingford line is that there are several
scheduled half-hour gaps in the daytime, utterly spoiling the idea of a
regular interval service. One of the many cancellations across the WA
network is the first train from Chingford after the morning peak
restrictions, which is a truly fantastic idea.

Chingford line frequency
 

On 18 Feb 2006 12:37:21 -0800, wrote:


Paul Corfield wrote:

[snip]

Nice to see Saturday services back to x15 after being hacked back to x20 when One took over.

I don't remember the Saturday service being 15-minute intervals before
now in the 20 years I've been using the line - I'm pretty sure it
hasn't been in that period, as I use the line a fair bit at weekends. I
don't have any great desire to stick up for One, but I think this may
be a little unfair on them!

I'm pretty sure that WAGN operated a 15 min Sat service for at least a
year. It did revert to x20 under their stewardship (having checked an
old timetable) so I am being unfair to One.

Around 15 years ago a few ran fast from Liverpool Street to Walthamstow
St James Street in the evening peak, and I think v.v. in the morning
peak. I don't remember this lasting for more than one timetable though.

When I first arrived in London I used the line from St James St to
Liverpool St with the old slam door trains. It was a rather different
world from that I was familiar with. ISTR the "express" trains that
trundled rather than hurtled through Clapton, Hackney Downs and Bethnal
Green.

I see from other posts that the actual implementation has been a farce.
I don't use the line very much but the improvements are a good idea -
shame they are now delayed for the best of a year due to One's
incompetence.

I couldn't agree more. The timetable was revised two weeks ago, but
rather than revert to the previous incarnation One have selectively
cancelled some services on most, if not all, West Anglia routes. The
effect of this for the Chingford line is that there are several
scheduled half-hour gaps in the daytime, utterly spoiling the idea of a
regular interval service. One of the many cancellations across the WA
network is the first train from Chingford after the morning peak
restrictions, which is a truly fantastic idea.

Those sorts of timetable changes are just crazy but then that seems to
show the level of competence within the One management team. As you say
- why not revert to the old timetable which had the benefit of being
workable and something people were familiar with. It's just as well I
have a free pass for the line because I'd be upset if I had to pay for
that sort of service. Your comments have made me even less likely to try
it now as I'm not going to get myself in a situation of waiting for 30
minutes, rather than 15, for a train.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Chingford line frequency
 

In message . com,
writes

I can't remember what the Jazz service levels were however, and they
may well have included a 15-minute Saturday service mentioned above. I
do remember that the last remains of the all-night service (around
three trains in the overnight period) were finally removed sometime
around 1987-9.

The original steam-hauled "jazz service" from Chingford was (in 1929)
roughly every 10 minutes in the peaks. All were limited stop services in
various patterns, the fastest making Liverpool St in 27 minutes.
Off-peak was every 20 minutes.

Curiously, the Saturday service didn't start until 10.06 (no workmens'
trains needed in Chingford!), but was also six trains an hour until
mid-afternoon, then every 20 minutes, and then every 30 minutes after
19.37. Sunday was every 15 minutes for most of the day.

Following electrification in 1960, there were 9 peak-time departures an
hour - but, of course, the entire service was cut back once the Victoria
line opened in '68.

(Back in 1929 there was also the Chingford - North Woolwich service via
Stratford - hourly on Sundays, but very sparse on other days.)
--
Paul Terry

Chingford line frequency
 

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:27:34 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

(Back in 1929 there was also the Chingford - North Woolwich service via
Stratford - hourly on Sundays, but very sparse on other days.)

Presumably this ran via the curve at Low Hall and ran through Lea Bridge
station?

Any idea why it was hourly on Sundays but infrequent the rest of the
time? Pathing issues or just lack of demand?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Chingford line frequency
 

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:27:34 +0000, Paul Terry
wrote:

(Back in 1929 there was also the Chingford - North Woolwich service via
Stratford - hourly on Sundays, but very sparse on other days.)

Presumably this ran via the curve at Low Hall and ran through Lea Bridge
station?

That's right. But it was always very patchy. According to London's Local
Railways, it started in 1880 as a Walthamstow-Stratford service for
local commuters, with some trains running through to Chingford. It was
cut back to Wood Street in 1910. From 1914 it became North Woolwich to
Chingford, but was apparently summer only (it is in my Bradshaw of June
1929).

Any idea why it was hourly on Sundays but infrequent the rest of the
time? Pathing issues or just lack of demand?

I think it was primarily a Sunday leisure service for eastenders wanting
to take a day-trip to Epping Forest. There was a similar summer-only,
mainly-Sunday service from Highgate Road (later Gospel Oak) to Chingford
via Copper Mills, which ran down even faster (Easter, Whit and August
Bank Holidays only after 1926, abandoned in the 1940s).

--
Paul Terry

Chingford line frequency
 

Peter Masson wrote:

It's been 4tph Mondays to Fridays for quite a time, and IIRC it's never been
less than 3tph. Saturdays has recently iuncreased from 3tph to 4tph, and
Sundays from 2tph to 4tph, presumably as part of TfL's 'Overground Network'
scheme. Are TfL subsidising the increased weekend frequency?

Going back to 2000, it was every 15 minutes weekdays, every 20 minutes
Saturday and every 30 minutes Sunday.

Quite an unusual service pattern - I don't think there are that many
routes that have a different frequency on weekdays (excluding peak
periods) to Saturday.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Chingford line frequency
 

Yes the implementation has been a farce. The original printed timetable
for the London to Chingford branch for the period 11 December 2005 to
10 June 2006 has been replaced by one for the period 6 Februay to 10
June 2006. But for Sundays until 5 March the revised timetable dosent
give any times! Instead it refers readers to visit the One website or
phone National Rail Enquiries. A bit odd that.

But even the revised printed timetable for Mondays to Fridays seems
suspect. A couple of times recently I arrived at Liverpool Street in
time for the 21.15 train as shown on the revised timetable. But on both
occasions it wasant shown on the departure boards. The first time it
happened I thought that this was a bit odd as normally a cancelled
train will still be up on the departure board with the cancelled label
shown. I just waited for the next train. But the second time it
happened I smelt a rat so I looked at the timetables displayed near the
ticket office only to find that the 21.15 train has been erased from
the timetable. I wonder how many more services have been erased out of
existence without passengers knowledge?

Barry

Chingford line frequency
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Yes the implementation has been a farce.
[snip]
But even the revised printed timetable for Mondays to Fridays seems
suspect. A couple of times recently I arrived at Liverpool Street in
time for the 21.15 train as shown on the revised timetable. But on both
occasions it wasant shown on the departure boards. The first time it
happened I thought that this was a bit odd as normally a cancelled
train will still be up on the departure board with the cancelled label
shown. I just waited for the next train. But the second time it
happened I smelt a rat so I looked at the timetables displayed near the
ticket office only to find that the 21.15 train has been erased from
the timetable. I wonder how many more services have been erased out of
existence without passengers knowledge?

Barry


The entire Saturday Stratford-Tottenham service, although appearing in the
recent weekend engineering works special timetable, is withdrawn. There is
no publicity at Tottenham Hale station to advise of this, and the member of
staff on duty there 4 Saturdays ago was unaware that the withdrawal was
permanent. A poster in the underground passsage leading to platform 12 at
Stratford is the only publicity for this service withdrawal there. The only
way a customer would ever see this, is if they were on the way to catch the
non-existent service itself, the only one that uses that platform. There's
nothing on the station concourse.
Hopeless.

Chris Cook
Beckenham, Kent