Are you still supposed to beep in on the bendibuses if you have an
Oyster travelcard or do you only need to do this if your using pre-pay?

John B wrote:
kytelly wrote:
Are you still supposed to beep in on the bendibuses if you have an
Oyster travelcard or do you only need to do this if your using pre-pay?

The latter. Ditto the Tube (assuming you don't need to do so to open
the barriers), DLR and rail.

Sometimes an inspector may suggest otherwise, as once happened to my
flatmate. In this case you should - while remaining polite throughout -
point out the real situation, ask for the inspector's details, and
write a formal letter of complaint to TfL about employing staff who
don't know how to do their jobs.


Not that it would cost anything to beep it, but any inspector who
didn't understand about travelcards ... mind you, an SWT guard within
London told me that a travelcard could only be used on one NR trip, and
insisted on scribbling his mark on it (a paper one).

When I get on a straight bus with an Oyster travelcard, I always beep
it so that the driver knows I've got something valid. But not on a
bendy.

"John B" wrote in news:1143043547.888482.166630
@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

kytelly wrote:
Are you still supposed to beep in on the bendibuses if you have an
Oyster travelcard or do you only need to do this if your using pre-pay?

The latter. Ditto the Tube (assuming you don't need to do so to open
the barriers), DLR and rail.

Sometimes an inspector may suggest otherwise, as once happened to my
flatmate. In this case you should - while remaining polite throughout -
point out the real situation, ask for the inspector's details, and
write a formal letter of complaint to TfL about employing staff who
don't know how to do their jobs.


I wish I knew this. I got bollocked on DLR for not beeping, when I had! I
had a year season ticket on my Oyster, zones 1-3 (hence eligible to use the
entire DLR anyway).

I had taken the tube at Old Street (using the barriers), gone down to Bank
on the Northern Line, the DLR was about to leave so I didn't beep on the
little yellow thing (I didn't even know I had to, as I'd beeped in Old
Street).

The inspector's handheld machine did not show I had entered in Old Street,
it said that I was on the DLR illegally, and it didn't show that I had a
year season ticket for zones 1-3 - all it said was that I should have been
there.

The guy gave me a humiliating bollocking and was going to issue me with a
penalty, but eventually let me off telling me not to do it again - he
clearly believed I was genuine (I didn't look like a faredodger, I was
wearing a smart suit FFS!)

I wish I'd known that little tidbit as I'd have asked him for his details.
I will next time!!


I'm not sure though whether your advice about not having to beep on the
Tube either is particularly safe. Surely, if you have £20 extra on top of
your season ticket (in case you ever go out of zone) then if you don't
beep, the system will assume you have come from or are going to zone 6 and
will charge you accordingly? I'd always assumed that, and hence always
beeped, even when the barriers were open or out of order.

Furthermore, if an inspector came on and you hadn't beeped to get through
the barriers on your original station, would his handheld device not query
it and could he not suggest you are trying to come from a zone further out?

Not that it would cost anything to beep it, but any inspector who
didn't understand about travelcards ... mind you, an SWT guard within
London told me that a travelcard could only be used on one NR trip, and
insisted on scribbling his mark on it (a paper one).

Been there, got the T-shirt (it's blue, if anyone cares) Bought an OP ODTC
in the morning, went to London, shouted at a few people, then headed home.
The problem that I had arose when I got off the train at Portsmouth &
Southsea, and asked to retain the ticket as "I'll be back in London later".
The RPI assumed, incorrectly, that I wanted to re-use the ticket to get a
later train back to the capital, whereas I was actually getting a lift back
up. A bit of head-scratching by the RPI at Portsmouth ensued, until I
actually said "why don't you just scribble something like 'valid within
zones 1-6 only', so I can't use it before I get back up there?". "Good
point", he said as he scribbled on the ticket, smiled and handed it back to
me.

M
Portsmouth

"M J Forbes" wrote in
:

Not that it would cost anything to beep it, but any inspector who
didn't understand about travelcards ... mind you, an SWT guard within
London told me that a travelcard could only be used on one NR trip,
and insisted on scribbling his mark on it (a paper one).

Been there, got the T-shirt (it's blue, if anyone cares) Bought an OP
ODTC in the morning, went to London, shouted at a few people, then
headed home. The problem that I had arose when I got off the train at
Portsmouth & Southsea, and asked to retain the ticket as "I'll be back
in London later". The RPI assumed, incorrectly, that I wanted to
re-use the ticket to get a later train back to the capital, whereas I
was actually getting a lift back up. A bit of head-scratching by the
RPI at Portsmouth ensued, until I actually said "why don't you just
scribble something like 'valid within zones 1-6 only', so I can't use
it before I get back up there?". "Good point", he said as he
scribbled on the ticket, smiled and handed it back to me.


There's an easier way out: just say to him that you need to keep the ticket
to get a refund from expenses at work.

It's what I've done. Although careful, as some inspectors like to tear the
card slightly as they give it back.

Tristán White wrote:
The inspector's handheld machine did not show I had entered in Old Street,
it said that I was on the DLR illegally, and it didn't show that I had a
year season ticket for zones 1-3 - all it said was that I should have been
there.

Do you not still get one of those gold card things with your oyster card
season ticket. I'd assumed you need to carry that with your Oyster Card
anyway (otherwise how could they tell that you had not simply been given
somebody else's card and season ticket)?

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.

David Howdon wrote in
:

Tristán White wrote:
The inspector's handheld machine did not show I had entered in Old
Street, it said that I was on the DLR illegally, and it didn't show
that I had a year season ticket for zones 1-3 - all it said was that
I should have been there.

Do you not still get one of those gold card things with your oyster
card season ticket. I'd assumed you need to carry that with your
Oyster Card anyway (otherwise how could they tell that you had not
simply been given somebody else's card and season ticket)?


Yes. But I never carry it with me. I've got loads of ID on me and if I do
have problems they can ask for my ID. I only carry the gold card when I
know I'm using South East trains and can get a third off.

My reason is because when I got the Oyster for the first time (pretty much
when it came out) the guy in London Bridge ticket office told me that I
should never keep them together, as if I lose my wallet and lose both
Oyster and card, it may not be easy to get a replacement. So I keep it in a
safe place indoors.

Whenever I have been checked by an inspector, I've never been asked to show
my gold card... and I assume that they would know who I am and I carry
plenty of other ID on me to prove my identity.

AFAIK you do *not* have to bring the gold card with you, but I dare say
someone else here will contradict that :-))

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:04:38 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

"John B" wrote in news:1143043547.888482.166630
:

kytelly wrote:
Are you still supposed to beep in on the bendibuses if you have an
Oyster travelcard or do you only need to do this if your using pre-pay?

The latter. Ditto the Tube (assuming you don't need to do so to open
the barriers), DLR and rail.

Sometimes an inspector may suggest otherwise, as once happened to my
flatmate. In this case you should - while remaining polite throughout -
point out the real situation, ask for the inspector's details, and
write a formal letter of complaint to TfL about employing staff who
don't know how to do their jobs.

[snip tale of woe]

I'm not sure though whether your advice about not having to beep on the
Tube either is particularly safe. Surely, if you have £20 extra on top of
your season ticket (in case you ever go out of zone) then if you don't
beep, the system will assume you have come from or are going to zone 6 and
will charge you accordingly? I'd always assumed that, and hence always
beeped, even when the barriers were open or out of order.

You are entirely correct if you are making a journey that will involve
an extension beyond your zonal availability and you need to use Pre-Pay
to cover the extra trip.

While everyone is exhorted to touch in and out in order to make sure the
extension ticket from pre-pay is automatic I would have had a right old
argument with the ticket inspector in your case where you demonstrably
had a valid Travelcard for the whole of the DLR network. The fact he
could not use his hand held reader properly is not your problem.

Furthermore, if an inspector came on and you hadn't beeped to get through
the barriers on your original station, would his handheld device not query
it and could he not suggest you are trying to come from a zone further out?

The answer to this is very simple. He might have a suspicion but he
could not prove it. There are a number of places where passengers can
enter the LU network from National Rail by crossing between platforms.
There are no gates. There are validators but are there signs to demand
that *everyone* with an Oyster card validates? - no there are not. There
*are* signs saying that if you use Pre-Pay on Oyster cards that you
should do so. There is NO requirement for a Travelcard user to do so
unless they are making a Pre-Pay trip as an extension to the Travelcard.
In such cases they are rather obviously using Pre-Pay!

The big issue here is that TfL are trying to present Oyster as something
that is very simple. In essence it is but the fact that two ticket
products can work together on one card and that there are several very
important exceptions to the normal rules means that detailed information
is needed. It is not unlike mobile phone tariffs - on the face of it
they look simple but then you look in detail at the call cost tables,
bundles, add ons etc etc and then you lose the will to live. The
difference being that you can at least get at all of that information.

It is virtually impossible to get all the information as what needs to
be done to avoid falling foul of some rule that applies somewhere on the
network. The volume of Oyster related questions to this newsgroup proves
that point beyond doubt. I wish TfL would sort this out as there are a
lot of very fed up passengers and staff trying to wrestle with the
system.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:04:38 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

I'm not sure though whether your advice about not having to beep on the
Tube either is particularly safe. Surely, if you have £20 extra on top of
your season ticket (in case you ever go out of zone) then if you don't
beep, the system will assume you have come from or are going to zone 6 and
will charge you accordingly?

If you're going out of your zones, you must touch in/out at *both*
ends of your journey.

If your journey is entirely within your zones, you don't have to touch
in/out at either end.

Furthermore, if an inspector came on and you hadn't beeped to get through
the barriers on your original station, would his handheld device not query
it and could he not suggest you are trying to come from a zone further out?

If you hadn't touched in, you'd only be in trouble if caught
travelling out of zone.

Paul Corfield wrote:

The answer to this is very simple. He might have a suspicion but he
could not prove it. There are a number of places where passengers can
enter the LU network from National Rail by crossing between platforms.
There are no gates. There are validators but are there signs to demand
that *everyone* with an Oyster card validates? - no there are not. There
*are* signs saying that if you use Pre-Pay on Oyster cards that you
should do so. There is NO requirement for a Travelcard user to do so
unless they are making a Pre-Pay trip as an extension to the Travelcard.
In such cases they are rather obviously using Pre-Pay!

Except it's not so obvious...

In my case, entering the system from National Rail at Forest Gate I pass
signs telling me "Oyster PrePay is NOT valid from this station". And there
is nothing at all at that station for me to touch in/out of, even for the
conscientious traveller who wants to help National Rail and TfL get a better
picture of service use.* I get to Stratford to change for the tube. I do not
think of myself as a PrePay user and that's all the sign tells me need to
touch in. So I have no need to touch in there. Then I get the tube.
Sometimes I come out through barriers, sometimes not - how does it tell?

And if I go out of zone, say to Amersham or Chesham, that's the first time
the ticket picks me up. And this brings up the other problem. The travelcard
is in part appealing because of "no need to plan your journey in advance",
whilst Oyster PrePay has been advertised (dodgily) on the same basis. But
the extensions *do* require me to beep in and out at Stratford, even if I
haven't yet planned to do so - say I was going to Harrow but got a phone
message to go to Chesham in the Willsden area?

Incidentally, if I'd started my journey at Ilford were there are barriers
with Oyster readers, would the system have a problem? Or would I need to
find a TfL reader for PrePay as well?

( * There used to be readers on the platforms but these were removed. And I
can't see how you can easily gate up (b-boom!) Forest Gate easily taking
into account people overshooting and wishing to double back, the frequent
switching of Ilford bound trains to platform 4 which is cannot be accessed
from the station building and requires stepping out onto street, and the
architecture of the station not really offering a good place for a row of
barriers for platforms 1-3.)

(Oh and yes I know that for Forest Gate to Metropolitan Line destinations
the best interchange is Liverpool Street, with two sets of barriers, but the
Circle/Hammer & Met central London sections are often being worked on at
weekends, making Stratford a better interchange.)