Some stations clearly do. Some don't.

Until they get their arse in gear and somehow manage to make prepay work on
all zonal NR stations, it's always a lottery. An expensive lottery.

My season ticket ran out last month and I'm now on pre-pay. I don't travel
before 9:30 and normally I always travel enough to make up the equivalent
of an off-peak travelcard.

Sometimes I don't, and I've actually saved some money. Which is the good
thing about pre-pay.

I was going to Camden Road from Canning Town and because I wasn't sure
whether Camden Road had barriers or pre-pay, I bought a paper day-time
travelcard (doubly annoying as I'd just wasted £0.80 on my pre-pay to get a
bus to Canning Town in the first place).

Lo and behold, I could have used the barriers at Camden Road, and saved
myself that money. However, had I decided to go to eg West Hampstead on the
Silverlink instead, I could have faced difficulties.

Another example is taking NR from Waterloo to St Helier (which requires a
change at Wimbledon). In Wimbledon, beside the platform where you change,
there is a yellow pre-pay swipe thingie, but then nothing at St Helier.

The whole thing is confusing, and it is potentially making people offenders
when they have no intention of being one.

Any idea when pre-pay will be adopted throughout all zonal NR stations and,
if not, any idea of a list of stations that *do* accept pre-pay?

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

Some stations clearly do. Some don't.

Until they get their arse in gear and somehow manage to make prepay work on
all zonal NR stations, it's always a lottery. An expensive lottery.

My season ticket ran out last month and I'm now on pre-pay. I don't travel
before 9:30 and normally I always travel enough to make up the equivalent
of an off-peak travelcard.

Sometimes I don't, and I've actually saved some money. Which is the good
thing about pre-pay.

I was going to Camden Road from Canning Town and because I wasn't sure
whether Camden Road had barriers or pre-pay, I bought a paper day-time
travelcard (doubly annoying as I'd just wasted £0.80 on my pre-pay to get a
bus to Canning Town in the first place).

You bought the right ticket as you were going on to NR services where
Pre-Pay is not valid.

Lo and behold, I could have used the barriers at Camden Road, and saved
myself that money. However, had I decided to go to eg West Hampstead on the
Silverlink instead, I could have faced difficulties.

No you couldn't as Pre-Pay is not valid on the NLL between Gunnersbury
and Stratford or between Canning Town and North Woolwich. Just because
there is a target on a gate does not mean Pre-Pay works at that
location. It means Oyster cards can be read by the gate which might be a
travelcard or a Freedom Pass for the elderly and disabled.

Another example is taking NR from Waterloo to St Helier (which requires a
change at Wimbledon). In Wimbledon, beside the platform where you change,
there is a yellow pre-pay swipe thingie, but then nothing at St Helier.

Yes there are targets at Wimbledon for Tube and for Tramlink where
Pre-pay works alongside Travelcards. Holders of Travelcards in Oyster
format who need to get in and out of the station have to have the means
to do so as well - even if they are simply using TOC trains services.
Pre-Pay is NOT valid for the Waterloo - St Helier journey.

The whole thing is confusing, and it is potentially making people offenders
when they have no intention of being one.

I agree - up to a point.

Any idea when pre-pay will be adopted throughout all zonal NR stations and,
if not, any idea of a list of stations that *do* accept pre-pay?

When Ken is given control of all London rail services which is looking
increasingly likely. The first slice of this will be the TfL takeover of
the Silverlink Metro network. It will remain a franchise but will be
paid for by TfL and will be under their control and management via the
franchise agreement.

List of stations / lines in this document.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...006.pdf#page=1

"Ask Oyster" on the Oyster website also covers these sorts of questions.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article . 145,
Tristán White wrote:
Some stations clearly do. Some don't.

re-pay is valid on very few national rail routes; the list is available
from:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#7

I was going to Camden Road from Canning Town and because I wasn't sure
whether Camden Road had barriers or pre-pay, I bought a paper day-time
travelcard (doubly annoying as I'd just wasted £0.80 on my pre-pay to get a
bus to Canning Town in the first place).

Lo and behold, I could have used the barriers at Camden Road, and saved
myself that money. However, had I decided to go to eg West Hampstead on the
Silverlink instead, I could have faced difficulties.

Pre-pay is not available between Canning Town and Camden Road. They
Oyster readers at Camden Road are for people with a season ticket
on an Oyster card.

The whole thing is confusing, and it is potentially making people offenders
when they have no intention of being one.

I suspect that without mens rea, then they aren't one (and the confusion
perhaps gives a nice loophole for the rest).

Any idea when pre-pay will be adopted throughout all zonal NR stations and,

When Ken is King!

if not, any idea of a list of stations that *do* accept pre-pay?

See above.

--
"Get your head out of there or I'll fart"
-- things you don't want to hear in bed, #12

Mike Bristow wrote in
:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/tickets/oyster_faqs.shtml#7



Thanks for this.

The mind boggles, really. So if I have a day travelcard loaded onto the
Oyster I can go from Canning Town to Richmond, as long as I'm not getting
off between Stratford and Gunnersbury... even though I have already paid
up.

I assume that's the case, since I can go from Liverpool St to Walthamstow
but not at intermediate stations, and from Harrow and Wealdstone to Euston
but not at Kilburn HR and Seven Sisters.

So by that reckoning, I can go from Canning Town to Richmond, but not at
stations between Stratford and Gunnersbury.

Or am I wrong?

And if an Inspector came on the train as it was passing through Camden
Road, for example, could I get a fine (but not one as it is passing through
Kilburn HR on the Liverpool St to Walthamstow line?)

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:18:40 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

The mind boggles, really. So if I have a day travelcard loaded onto the
Oyster

You can't load a day Travelcard onto an Oyster...

And if an Inspector came on the train as it was passing through Camden
Road,

On Silverlink Metro? Okay, let's pretend

for example, could I get a fine

Yes, if you're only using pre-pay. (You'd be OK if you had a
Travelcard season including Z2 on your Oyster).

(but not one as it is passing through Kilburn HR on the Liverpool St
to Walthamstow line?)

That's a tricky one - the rules regarding pre-pay could be different
in the parallel universe you'd stumbled into.

(But to answer the question you meant: No, as long as you don't get
on/off there.)

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Tristán White wrote:

The mind boggles, really. So if I have a day travelcard loaded onto the
Oyster

.... then you're not using the Oyster card we're talking about. Oyster
doesn't support day travelcards. It does cap pre-pay charges to day
travelcard levels (or rather, 50p below), but that's not the same thing.
It's functionally very similar, but conceptually distinct.

I agree that it is all highly inconvenient and awkward, but i don't accept
that it's complicated or particularly absurd.

More pre-pay/travelcard integration would be good, though. This would be
pretty simple from a user point of view - you wave your oyster at a ticket
machine and ask to buy a travelcard, and rather than charging you full
whack, it takes the applicable pre-pay spend off the price.

For example, you hop on the DLR at King George V, trundle along to Canning
Town, paying a quid for the privilege, take the Jubilee to Stratford,
paying another quid, then want to buy a zone 234 travelcard to take you to
Richmond; that would normally cost 7.40, but since you've got two pounds
of pre-pay counting against it, you pay 5.40. And everybody's happy.
Except that you paid 7.40 in total, whereas capping would have kicked in
at 6.90; consider that a surcharge for the actual piece of paper.

It would probably want to mark the pre-pay balance as having been used in
this way, to stop a capped travelcard being used to print out an endless
supply of paper travelcards.

And if an Inspector came on the train as it was passing through Camden
Road, for example, could I get a fine (but not one as it is passing through
Kilburn HR on the Liverpool St to Walthamstow line?)

If one was on a train passing through Kilburn High Road on the Liverpool
Street to Walthamstow line, i should imagine fines would be the least of
your concerns.

tom

--
You have now found yourself trapped in an incomprehensible maze.

Tom Anderson wrote in
.li:

SNIP
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Tristán White wrote:
SNIP
And if an Inspector came on the train as it was passing through
Camden Road, for example, could I get a fine (but not one as it is
passing through Kilburn HR on the Liverpool St to Walthamstow line?)

If one was on a train passing through Kilburn High Road on the
Liverpool Street to Walthamstow line, i should imagine fines would be
the least of your concerns.


LOL I meant Euston - Harrow & Wealdstone of course. :-))

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

Some stations clearly do. Some don't.

Until they get their arse in gear and somehow manage to make prepay work on
all zonal NR stations, it's always a lottery. An expensive lottery.

The whole thing is confusing...

The main mistake you're making is a conceptual one - pre-pay is valid
on particular *routes*, not at particular *stations*.

(Although, just to confuse things, there are certain routes where it's
valid, as long as you don't get on/off at particular stations.)

Any idea when pre-pay will be adopted throughout all zonal NR stations?

Not for the forseeable future, unfortunately.

asdf wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:20:19 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:
Any idea when pre-pay will be adopted throughout all zonal NR stations?

Not for the forseeable future, unfortunately.

....although acceptance of PAYG is now in the South Western franchise
specification, meaning that it should be valid on all South Western
services within Greater London after 4th February 2007 (although
installation of validators may take some time, so it could be later in
the year).

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news.php?id=350

Actually, that's before the North London Railway take over, which is
November 2007 - so by the end of next year, PAYG should be valid at
another 60-70 rail stations.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London