tim (back at home) wrote:
"BBK" wrote in message
...

My flatmate used my annual travelcard (paper ticket) on the tube
recently and got inspected by the mob that board the tubes. As he
didn't have a photocard & they decided it wasn't his ticket - my ticket
was confiscated and he is waiting to hear about a fine for fraudulent
use! They said they'd send my ticket back to Southern Trains (the
issuers) and I'd have to contact them about getting it back!

Southern have now finally said they've passed my details onto the
Independent Fares and Penalty Services (still don't have the ticket
back yet) and it's likely I'll get a fine too - even though I didn't
know he had used it that day! I can't get hold of these people except
by writing to them and we're both left in the dark and moreover they
have my ticket still!

My question is I doubt I can do anything about the imminent fines for


Of course you can.

The fine will be a criminal charge,
If you stand up and say the the guy took the ticket
without permission you will get off and they will
throw the book at him.

Obviously don't do that if it's not true.

CPS charging practice is he

http://cps.gov.uk/legal/section9/cha...l#_Toc44579898

It says the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s5 is used to prosecute fare
evaders. But surely that does not apply to you since you were not
actually travelling on the railway. And it would probably be a private
prosecution, not by the CPS.

If you gave permission for your card to be used, it looks like you have
breached TFL and railway bylaws 21(2) and 22(2):

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/company/bylaws.asp
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ays_504364.pdf

If your only loss from this is your annual ticket you should probably
consider yourself lucky.

If you want more advice, uk.legal.moderated/uk.railway might be a better
place. Or a solicitor.
--
Michael Hoffman

"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
...
tim (back at home) wrote:
"BBK" wrote in message
...

My flatmate used my annual travelcard (paper ticket) on the tube
recently and got inspected by the mob that board the tubes. As he
didn't have a photocard & they decided it wasn't his ticket - my ticket
was confiscated and he is waiting to hear about a fine for fraudulent
use! They said they'd send my ticket back to Southern Trains (the
issuers) and I'd have to contact them about getting it back!

Southern have now finally said they've passed my details onto the
Independent Fares and Penalty Services (still don't have the ticket
back yet) and it's likely I'll get a fine too - even though I didn't
know he had used it that day! I can't get hold of these people except
by writing to them and we're both left in the dark and moreover they
have my ticket still!

My question is I doubt I can do anything about the imminent fines for


Of course you can.

The fine will be a criminal charge,
If you stand up and say the the guy took the ticket
without permission you will get off and they will
throw the book at him.

Obviously don't do that if it's not true.

CPS charging practice is he

http://cps.gov.uk/legal/section9/cha...l#_Toc44579898

It says the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s5 is used to prosecute fare
evaders. But surely that does not apply to you since you were not actually
travelling on the railway. And it would probably be a private prosecution,
not by the CPS.

If you gave permission for your card to be used, it looks like you have
breached TFL and railway bylaws 21(2) and 22(2):

Given that a season ticket with no accompaning
photocard is worthless for travel, why would anyone
let someone else borrow it, it has zero value to that
other person?

tim





http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/company/bylaws.asp
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ays_504364.pdf

If your only loss from this is your annual ticket you should probably
consider yourself lucky.

If you want more advice, uk.legal.moderated/uk.railway might be a better
place. Or a solicitor.
--
Michael Hoffman

tim (back at home) wrote:
"Michael Hoffman" wrote in message
...
tim (back at home) wrote:
"BBK" wrote in message
...

My flatmate used my annual travelcard (paper ticket) on the tube
recently and got inspected by the mob that board the tubes. As he
didn't have a photocard & they decided it wasn't his ticket - my ticket
was confiscated and he is waiting to hear about a fine for fraudulent
use! They said they'd send my ticket back to Southern Trains (the
issuers) and I'd have to contact them about getting it back!

Southern have now finally said they've passed my details onto the
Independent Fares and Penalty Services (still don't have the ticket
back yet) and it's likely I'll get a fine too - even though I didn't
know he had used it that day! I can't get hold of these people except
by writing to them and we're both left in the dark and moreover they
have my ticket still!

My question is I doubt I can do anything about the imminent fines for


Of course you can.

The fine will be a criminal charge,
If you stand up and say the the guy took the ticket
without permission you will get off and they will
throw the book at him.

Obviously don't do that if it's not true.

CPS charging practice is he

http://cps.gov.uk/legal/section9/cha...l#_Toc44579898

It says the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s5 is used to prosecute fare
evaders. But surely that does not apply to you since you were not actually
travelling on the railway. And it would probably be a private prosecution,
not by the CPS.

If you gave permission for your card to be used, it looks like you have
breached TFL and railway bylaws 21(2) and 22(2):

Given that a season ticket with no accompaning
photocard is worthless for travel, why would anyone
let someone else borrow it, it has zero value to that
other person?


I can't make the CPS link work, but in any case, a season gets you
through the barriers without a photocard, and you don't usually get
inspectors at barriered stations. Maybe the borrower hoped not to be
inspected on the train.

On 22 Apr 2006 11:59:00 -0700, "MIG"
said:

a season gets you
through the barriers without a photocard, and you don't usually get
inspectors at barriered stations. Maybe the borrower hoped not to be
inspected on the train.

And even when you do get a ticket inspector, they almost never check
the photocard. I know this because I never show them mine and get by
just fine.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

tim (back at home) wrote:
"BBK" wrote in message
...

My flatmate used my annual travelcard (paper ticket) on the tube
recently and got inspected by the mob that board the tubes. As he
didn't have a photocard & they decided it wasn't his ticket - my ticket
was confiscated and he is waiting to hear about a fine for fraudulent
use! They said they'd send my ticket back to Southern Trains (the
issuers) and I'd have to contact them about getting it back!

Southern have now finally said they've passed my details onto the
Independent Fares and Penalty Services (still don't have the ticket
back yet) and it's likely I'll get a fine too - even though I didn't
know he had used it that day! I can't get hold of these people except
by writing to them and we're both left in the dark and moreover they
have my ticket still!

My question is I doubt I can do anything about the imminent fines for

[snip]

Given that a season ticket with no accompaning
photocard is worthless for travel, why would anyone
let someone else borrow it, it has zero value to that
other person?


No idea but I note that the original poster did not say he had done so.
If he had given permission then he is guilty of something (conspiracy
to evade fairs or whatever) but as written it is consistent with his
flatmate simply taking it without his permission.

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.

Given that a season ticket with no accompaning
photocard is worthless for travel, why would anyone
let someone else borrow it, it has zero value to that
other person?
[/i][/color]

No idea but I note that the original poster did not say he had done so.
If he had given permission then he is guilty of something (conspiracy
to evade fairs or whatever) but as written it is consistent with his
flatmate simply taking it without his permission.

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.[/quote]


So there is no chance the IPFAS will just issue a straight fine with a wrap on the knuckles? I was hoping that it would be a simple fine and I'd get my ticket back.....maybe I'm deluded!

My annual season ticket is Brighton to London at £3500, so it would be a pretty steep fine if they decide to keep it!

"BBK" wrote in message
...

Given that a season ticket with no accompaning
photocard is worthless for travel, why would anyone
let someone else borrow it, it has zero value to that
other person?


No idea but I note that the original poster did not say he had done so.

If he had given permission then he is guilty of something (conspiracy

to evade fairs or whatever) but as written it is consistent with his
flatmate simply taking it without his permission.

--
To contact me take a davidhowdon and add a @yahoo.co.uk to the end.


So there is no chance the IPFAS will just issue a straight fine with a
wrap on the knuckles? I was hoping that it would be a simple fine and I'd
get my ticket back.....maybe I'm deluded![/i][/color]

I have no idea if they will try this but if they did
it would be unenforcable in law and you could
sue for your money back. Of course they may
take the risk that you don't.

My annual season ticket is Brighton to London at £3500, so it would be a
pretty steep fine if they decide to keep it!

And they can't do this either.

If they suspect you of a criminal act they have to
prosecute you to extract a penalty.

They do have the option of deciding, without reason,
that they do not want you a customer, but in this
case they will have to give you your money back
(arguably on a strict pro-rata basis, not the
remaining value basis that they normally refund
season tickets)

tim