Just thought I would point out that the latest newsletter has gone up on
the Barking - Gospel Oak Line User Group website.
http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/news.htm in particular

I don't think the issues raised have been discussed here.

FREQUENCY IMPROVEMENTS & EXTENDED DESTINATIONS: It includes details of a
proposed 4 trains an hour Barking to Clapham Junction as well as a
double on the frequency on the Stratford to Camden Road section and an
extension to Queens Park amongst other quite impressive plans. I have to
admit I'll believe it when I see it, but I was present at the talk by
Head of Rail Franchising at Transport for London last month, which all
this is based on. He was reasonably confident, although admitted there
were some practicalities to be sorted.

Anyway: target date timetable change is by 2010 (presumably December),
so that the operation can be proven to run effectively at least 6 months
before the start of the Olympics (all transport has to be proven in
advance, to be accepted by the Olympics Committee, or something similar;
therefore December 2011 wouldn't allow enough time for any teething
problems).

OYSTER: Amongst other things, the relationship with Silverlink is such
that they plan to have Oyster validators installed at all the NLL
stations by the time TfL are running the route. They will be accepting
Prepay too.

TRAIN STOCK: Not mentioned in the newsletter, but the plan is to have
the same rolling stock across the entire East London Line and North
London Line (which will all be operated under one contractor -
apparently it's not a franchise for some legally minded reason). The
only exception to this may be the Goblin line depending on whether wires
are installed. The trains will all be a minimum of 4 car in length, I
think, which will mean some platforms extensions - some very preliminary
work has taken place on this (i.e. TfL chaps going around the NLL
network and peering out of the doors at each station to work out any
obvious difficulties!). I did note that this would free up a number of
313 units (could Thameslink (FCC) use these, or WAGN (FCC) to bulk up
thier Moorgate services)?

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

In article ,
(Paul G) wrote:

I did note that this would free up a number of
313 units (could Thameslink (FCC) use these, or WAGN (FCC) to bulk up
thier Moorgate services)?

Since the lack of demand on GN Inners is why they became available for
the NLL in the first place, I have my doubts.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 22:07:55 +0100, Paul G wrote:

Just thought I would point out that the latest newsletter has gone up on
the Barking - Gospel Oak Line User Group website.
http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/news.htm in particular

I don't think the issues raised have been discussed here.

I think some of them have been, though you add a few new details.

TRAIN STOCK: Not mentioned in the newsletter, but the plan is to have
the same rolling stock across the entire East London Line and North
London Line (which will all be operated under one contractor -
apparently it's not a franchise for some legally minded reason). The
only exception to this may be the Goblin line depending on whether wires
are installed.

If it's not, I hope this doesn't stop them running through trains from
the Goblin to West Hampstead/Willesden Junction, as that would greatly
increase the usefulness of the Goblin.

The trains will all be a minimum of 4 car in length, I
think, which will mean some platforms extensions

While the Olympic bid was still in progress, I seem to remember
reading something about them being extended to 6 cars for the
Olympics...

some very preliminary
work has taken place on this (i.e. TfL chaps going around the NLL
network and peering out of the doors at each station to work out any
obvious difficulties!

....but it seems they haven't given much thought to the idea till now!

I did note that this would free up a number of
313 units (could Thameslink (FCC) use these,

313s are only 75mph compared to the 319s' 100mph, though this might
not matter much on the "local" (Luton to Wimbledon/Sutton) Thameslink
services, if the stops are close enough together.

or WAGN (FCC) to bulk up thier Moorgate services)?

Perhaps. I suppose in theory they could be used on pretty much any
electric route in the country, though AIUI the structure of the
privatised railway makes running extra trains/carriages only
affordable on the most crowded of routes.

Peter Smyth wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message
ups.com...

At a glance, it looks like a real blow for anyone commuting to central
London from Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.

However both stations are very close to Kilburn Park and Swiss Cottage
respectively so there are alternative routes to central London.

Will Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead not be served by the New
North London Line service, that will extended thru Primrose Hill to
Queens Park?

Adrian.

Solario wrote:
Peter Smyth wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message
ups.com...

At a glance, it looks like a real blow for anyone commuting to central
London from Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.

However both stations are very close to Kilburn Park and Swiss Cottage
respectively so there are alternative routes to central London.

Will Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead not be served by the New
North London Line service, that will extended thru Primrose Hill to
Queens Park?

Adrian.



Currently they can get to Euston in a couple of minutes.

asdf wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 03:31:31 +0100, Charles Ellson wrote:

At a glance, it looks like a real blow for anyone commuting to central
London from Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.

However both stations are very close to Kilburn Park and Swiss Cottage
respectively so there are alternative routes to central London.

They're not that close, the two Kilburns are a brisk five minute walk
apart and Swiss Cottage is about ten minutes uphill. The alternative
services don't run in the same directions either. If services to
Euston are withdrawn then one "what if" for consideration might be
re-opening Primrose Hill, restoring its old name and putting in a
pedestrian tunnel to Chalk Farm Northern Line station (although I
haven't got a map to hand to check the distance).

I think it's around 100m. But they should reopen the station in any
case - I'm surprised it doesn't appear in any of the proposals. I
think they'd be mad not to, unless there's a good reason why it can't
be done. (The platforms and station building are all still there.)
Linking Chalk Farm and Primrose Hill stations seems eminently sensible.
One of them should be renamed. I am not entirely sure which name is
the most geographically
accurate.

Also, connecting the South Hampstead platforms to Swiss Cottage station
would be good. However, I suspect the GC (Chiltern) bridge is in the
way of a link to the LU concourse. Elevators and escalators down to a
new mezzanine above the Jubilee tracks would be an alternative. But
this is expensive proposition and probably not worthwhile.

Adrian, http://www.losangelesmetro.net/author/

"Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote

Linking Chalk Farm and Primrose Hill stations seems eminently sensible.
One of them should be renamed. I am not entirely sure which name is
the most geographically
accurate.

Primrose Hill station was named Hampstead Road when it opened in 1851. It
was renamed Chalk Farm in1862, and only became Primrose Hill in 1950.

Peter

Peter Masson wrote:
"Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS" wrote

Linking Chalk Farm and Primrose Hill stations seems eminently sensible.
One of them should be renamed. I am not entirely sure which name is
the most geographically
accurate.

Primrose Hill station was named Hampstead Road when it opened in 1851. It
was renamed Chalk Farm in1862, and only became Primrose Hill in 1950.

Peter

So a linked station for both TfL Northine Line and Tfl Orbital services
called Chalk Farm would be both useful and in keeping with the history
of the stations.

Adrian.

On 9 Jun 2006 09:54:36 -0700, "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS"
wrote:


asdf wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 03:31:31 +0100, Charles Ellson wrote:

At a glance, it looks like a real blow for anyone commuting to central
London from Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.

However both stations are very close to Kilburn Park and Swiss Cottage
respectively so there are alternative routes to central London.

They're not that close, the two Kilburns are a brisk five minute walk
apart and Swiss Cottage is about ten minutes uphill. The alternative
services don't run in the same directions either. If services to
Euston are withdrawn then one "what if" for consideration might be
re-opening Primrose Hill, restoring its old name and putting in a
pedestrian tunnel to Chalk Farm Northern Line station (although I
haven't got a map to hand to check the distance).

I think it's around 100m. But they should reopen the station in any
case - I'm surprised it doesn't appear in any of the proposals. I
think they'd be mad not to, unless there's a good reason why it can't
be done. (The platforms and station building are all still there.)
Linking Chalk Farm and Primrose Hill stations seems eminently sensible.
One of them should be renamed. I am not entirely sure which name is
the most geographically
accurate.

Chalk Farm is the more relevant name, and was what Primrose Hill was
previously named.

Also, connecting the South Hampstead platforms to Swiss Cottage station
would be good. However, I suspect the GC (Chiltern) bridge is in the
way of a link to the LU concourse. Elevators and escalators down to a
new mezzanine above the Jubilee tracks would be an alternative. But
this is expensive proposition and probably not worthwhile.

Swiss Cottage is some distance away from South Hampstead. Any link is
probably not worth the bother unless the GC tracks above South
Hampstead have got room to shoehorn in a couple of platforms and make
it a three-way interchange.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

Charles Ellson wrote:
On 9 Jun 2006 09:54:36 -0700, "Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS"
wrote:


asdf wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 03:31:31 +0100, Charles Ellson wrote:

At a glance, it looks like a real blow for anyone commuting to central
London from Kilburn High Road and South Hampstead.

However both stations are very close to Kilburn Park and Swiss Cottage
respectively so there are alternative routes to central London.

They're not that close, the two Kilburns are a brisk five minute walk
apart and Swiss Cottage is about ten minutes uphill. The alternative
services don't run in the same directions either. If services to
Euston are withdrawn then one "what if" for consideration might be
re-opening Primrose Hill, restoring its old name and putting in a
pedestrian tunnel to Chalk Farm Northern Line station (although I
haven't got a map to hand to check the distance).

I think it's around 100m. But they should reopen the station in any
case - I'm surprised it doesn't appear in any of the proposals. I
think they'd be mad not to, unless there's a good reason why it can't
be done. (The platforms and station building are all still there.)
Linking Chalk Farm and Primrose Hill stations seems eminently sensible.
One of them should be renamed. I am not entirely sure which name is
the most geographically
accurate.

Chalk Farm is the more relevant name, and was what Primrose Hill was
previously named.

Also, connecting the South Hampstead platforms to Swiss Cottage station
would be good. However, I suspect the GC (Chiltern) bridge is in the
way of a link to the LU concourse. Elevators and escalators down to a
new mezzanine above the Jubilee tracks would be an alternative. But
this is expensive proposition and probably not worthwhile.

Swiss Cottage is some distance away from South Hampstead. Any link is
probably not worth the bother unless the GC tracks above South
Hampstead have got room to shoehorn in a couple of platforms and make
it a three-way interchange.
--
The slow tracks that complement the GC at this point are in effect the
Jubilee ones. There is little point in delaying passengers from
Banbury, Birmingham and even Wrexham for a minor interchange. As an
aside, West Hampstead is different because of the range of travel
possibilities. Indeed I think there is a case for closing at least one
station on the Neasden to Northolt section.

The Jubilee line is, I believe, below the WCML tracks somewhat beyond
the tunnel entrance behind (East of) the GC bridge. The Swiss Cottage
ticket hall is, I think, below Finchley Road which is the other side of
the flats if you are looking east from the South Hampstead Platforms.

An interchange is almost certainly technically possible IMHO.
Financially it is not viable. The new journey possibilities would be
very small in relation to the costs involved.

Adrian.