Zone validity
 

I live in Deptford, and my office is at London Bridge, so I have a Zone
1-2
Annual ticket on my Oyster card. Currently, however, I am on a
temporary
assignment in Feltham, so I additionally have a Zone 3-6 monthly
travelcard
on the Oyster card, and make the daily journey from Deptford to Feltham
via
Waterloo East & Waterloo. This is the ticket I was advised to buy when
I
explained my journey needs, and I have been making my journey on this
ticket
combination since January.

Today at Waterloo East, when the ticket inspector swiped my Oyster
card, he
only registered the Zone 3-6 ticket, so called me over. I explained to
him
that I had a Zone 1-2 as well, and that often with those small machines
both
tickets didn't show, and asked him to swipe it again to see if he could
see
the ticket, and also offered to show him the paper receipt. Rather
than doing either of these things, he asked me where I was travelling
to. I said that I was travelling to Feltham. He said, "Well, you
don't have a valid ticket then! What happens between Zone 2 & 3?"

I thought this was a ludicrous question, as there is nothing "between"
Zone
2 & 3. I had a ticket which was valid for all of Zones 1 & 2, and a
ticket
which was valid from the beginning of Zone 3 to the end of Zone 6, so
all
six zones in total. He insisted that this wasn't valid for my journey,
and that I needed a single ticket which covered both Zones 2 & 3.

After the usual extensive fuss in which I was threatened with
prosecution for long term fare evasion, I left the scene and got my
train as usual, but I was just wondering, does the inspector have any
grounds for this claim at all? Theoretically, would I have to get off
the train at Putney and then get back on again for the ticket to be
valid? South West trains have never had a problem with this ticket
combination; they've had a problem reading both tickets on the Oyster
card, but once it's explained to them, they're fine with it.

I'm hoping I was right as I've fired off a very shirty email to South
Eastern trains about it!

Patrick

Zone validity
 

Zone validity
 

wrote:

After the usual extensive fuss in which I was threatened with
prosecution for long term fare evasion, I left the scene and got my
train as usual, but I was just wondering, does the inspector have any
grounds for this claim at all? Theoretically, would I have to get off
the train at Putney and then get back on again for the ticket to be
valid?

No. As seems to be happening far too often, the inspector is talking
nonsense, and being unacceptably heavy-handed about doing so as well.

http://www.southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=218 contains a relevant
extract from the NCoC, or specifically :-
"You may use two or more tickets to travel on one train journey as long
as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following
applies:-

(a) they are zonal tickets;"

That appears to cover it nicely.

Neil

Zone validity
 

Paul Weaver wrote:
wrote:
After the usual extensive fuss in which I was threatened with
prosecution for long term fare evasion, I left the scene and got my
train as usual, but I was just wondering, does the inspector have any
grounds for this claim at all? Theoretically, would I have to get off
the train at Putney and then get back on again for the ticket to be
valid? South West trains have never had a problem with this ticket
combination; they've had a problem reading both tickets on the Oyster
card, but once it's explained to them, they're fine with it.

If the train stops at Putney you're fine. I'm not sure about through
trains though.

If (at least one of) the tickets are zonal, the train doesn't have to
stop. In this case, both are, so no need to stop.

Robin

Zone validity
 

Neil Williams wrote:
wrote:

After the usual extensive fuss in which I was threatened with
prosecution for long term fare evasion, I left the scene and got my
train as usual, but I was just wondering, does the inspector have any
grounds for this claim at all? Theoretically, would I have to get off
the train at Putney and then get back on again for the ticket to be
valid?

No. As seems to be happening far too often, the inspector is talking
nonsense, and being unacceptably heavy-handed about doing so as well.

http://www.southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=218 contains a relevant
extract from the NCoC, or specifically :-
"You may use two or more tickets to travel on one train journey as long
as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following
applies:-

(a) they are zonal tickets;"

That appears to cover it nicely.

Yup - and I would add that you should print out this relevant section of
the conditions and carry it with you when travelling, in order to avoid
long arguments with the ticket inspectors. If they challenge you, just
show them the print out, and they'll find it very hard to argue back
without looking like idiots for not knowing their job!

This is a link to the full NCoC, which doesn't have any TOC branding and
so avoids the ticket inspector claiming that the rule only applies to
Southern (or some such nonsense):
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...misc/NRCOC.pdf

You'll find the relevant passage on page 7 of the PDF, section 17. I
would highlight "one of the following applies" and part (a).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Zone validity
 

R.C. Payne wrote:

If (at least one of) the tickets are zonal, the train doesn't have to
stop. In this case, both are, so no need to stop.

Both for zonal tickets. However, both are, so no issue.

I'm sure I read PTE zonal tickets are excluded, but TfL for some reason
doesn't count as that, so again OK so far as I know.

Neil

Zone validity
 

Dave Arquati wrote:
Yup - and I would add that you should print out this relevant section of
the conditions and carry it with you when travelling, in order to avoid
long arguments with the ticket inspectors. If they challenge you, just
show them the print out, and they'll find it very hard to argue back
without looking like idiots for not knowing their job!

This is a link to the full NCoC, which doesn't have any TOC branding and
so avoids the ticket inspector claiming that the rule only applies to
Southern (or some such nonsense):
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...misc/NRCOC.pdf

You'll find the relevant passage on page 7 of the PDF, section 17. I
would highlight "one of the following applies" and part (a).

Thanks a lot for that Dave, and thanks to all others for your answers.
I was pretty sure I was right, but it's good to have it backed up in
black & white. I rang South Eastern this morning and they seemed
stunned that it had happened, and asked me to put it in writing. I've
sent an email off, so it'll be interesting to see what response I get.
Also it'll be interesting to see if I get the same hassle tomorrow if
it's the same staff.

Patrick

Zone validity
 

I'm hoping I was right as I've fired off a very shirty email to South
Eastern trains about it!

Patrick

***********************

Do make sure you post the reply you get to the email, I suspect it will
be of the "we're sorry you were treated like a criminal, but we're not
doing anything about it" variety.

I recently sent a very angry email to WAGN when they left us completely
stranded in Welwyn Garden City having cancelled the last train to
London. The reply could be summarised as: we accept the fact that we
left you stranded and that we should have paid for a hotel or taxi but
we're not doing anything about it.

Zone validity
 

I'm hoping I was right as I've fired off a very shirty email to South
Eastern trains about it!

Patrick

***********************

Do make sure you post the reply you get to the email, I suspect it will
be of the "we're sorry you were treated like a criminal, but we're not
doing anything about it" variety.

I recently sent a very angry email to WAGN when they left us completely
stranded in Welwyn Garden City having cancelled the last train to
London. The reply could be summarised as: we accept the fact that we
left you stranded and that we should have paid for a hotel or taxi but
we're not doing anything about it.

Zone validity
 

wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
This is a link to the full NCoC, which doesn't have any TOC branding and
so avoids the ticket inspector claiming that the rule only applies to
Southern (or some such nonsense):
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system...misc/NRCOC.pdf

You'll find the relevant passage on page 7 of the PDF, section 17. I
would highlight "one of the following applies" and part (a).

Thanks a lot for that Dave, and thanks to all others for your answers.
I was pretty sure I was right, but it's good to have it backed up in
black & white. I rang South Eastern this morning and they seemed
stunned that it had happened

Rightly so. This is really really basic stuff about travelcard zones,
and for an inspector at _Waterloo East_ to not get it... well, there's
a small amount of mind boggling going on. I mean, maybe if you had
something slightly interesting, such as a Woking to Z2 monthly season
and a Z1 weekly season, and were on a SWT train from Woking to London
that wasn't going to stop at Clapham Junction, and you had an SWT
inspector who was better at the country end of things than the town end
of things... MAYBE then you could excuse some confusion. But an (I
presume) SE inspector, at Waterloo East?

Also it'll be interesting to see if I get the same hassle tomorrow if
it's the same staff.

Get his name if you haven't already!

--
Larry Lard
Replies to group please

Zone validity
 

Larry Lard wrote:
Also it'll be interesting to see if I get the same hassle tomorrow if
it's the same staff.

Different staff today, but my ticket wasn't checked at Waterloo East as
there were simply too many people for them to check everyone.

However, on the train between Waterloo and Feltham, the inspector on
the train could only read my Zone 1&2 ticket! He was quite happy to
accept the paper receipt for the Zone 3-6 bit though. There really
must be some sort of problem with those hand-held machines, that
they're only able to show one travelcard, even though Oyster can hold
three, and it is random which travelcard slot they pick up.

On ticket checking, though, sometimes you do feel as if it's total
overkill. On a "good" day, my ticket is checked five times in a 55
minute period: once at Deptford, once at Waterloo East, once at
Waterloo, once on the train between Waterloo & Feltham, and once at the
gates at Feltham station. Never seen anyone checking on the train on
the Deptford-Waterloo East bit. Are there really *that* many fare
evaders during peak times to make all this effort cost effective?

No answer from SE Trains yet regarding yesterday's debacle...

Patrick

Zone validity