asdf wrote:

On 17 Jul 2006 05:19:31 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more
pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new
trains in fabric was made.

Plastic seats, no way!

I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think
there's any real hygiene problem at all either.

I always find this desire to try and ensure everything is
microscopically sanitised is pretty pointless and unachievable.
Microscopic organisms are an essential part of life on earth.

Indeed. Some of this tube seat hygiene mania may be traced to a hoax
email that was doing the rounds a few years ago:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/london.asp


Thanks for linking to that - it was in the back of my mind as I
composed my first post. The gist of said hoax email has now become
oft-quoted urban mythology.

Mizter T wrote:

Plastic seats, no way!

Plastic seats = static shocks

C! wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

Plastic seats, no way!

Plastic seats = static shocks

I ride the MTA all the time the seats are not bad but im paying less
than a pound per trip and that includes a bus transfer.

C! wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

Plastic seats, no way!

Plastic seats = static shocks

I ride the MTA all the time the seats are not bad but im paying less
than a pound per trip and that includes a bus transfer.

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:


Hi,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm

Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more
pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new
trains in fabric was made.

Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid
plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it
briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be
embedded in the fabric.....

No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic
seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim
O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric
seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from
other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the
other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine
sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems
with such seats have air conditioning.

You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure
you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way
between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat.

One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have
reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without
enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock
for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have
the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1],
Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting
remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the
new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on /
against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions
inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create
issues and I hope something more practical emerges.

[1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be
shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also
travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus
daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and
unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for
the passengers !

Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during
rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't
recall being on any train with those where people have not always been
seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others
aside to be able to flip them down...

....and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but
all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed
baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched
perch type seats years ago I seem to recall.

C


On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:14:47 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:


Hi,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm

Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more
pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new
trains in fabric was made.

Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid
plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it
briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be
embedded in the fabric.....

No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic
seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim
O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric
seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from
other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the
other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine
sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems
with such seats have air conditioning.

You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure
you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way
between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat.

One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have
reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without
enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock
for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have
the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1],
Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting
remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the
new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on /
against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions
inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create
issues and I hope something more practical emerges.

[1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be
shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:59:59 +0100, Craig wrote:

[big snip]

Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also
travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus
daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and
unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for
the passengers !

The bouncy ride is far more to do with track quality and the age of the
rolling stock. The trains are nearly 40 years old which is the end of
their design life. Given that everything on the Victoria Line is nearly
40 years old it's a minor miracle it still runs every day.

The bit of track on the northbound between Finsbury Park and Seven
Sisters is noticeably quieter and smoother of late - I assume this is
where the weekend works are happening.

I would still prefer to have a comfy seat cushion on rebuilt track than
an orthopaedic bed disguised as a train.

Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during
rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't
recall being on any train with those where people have not always been
seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others
aside to be able to flip them down...

I think the tip up seats are a compromise to deal with making a
vestibule area available for those in wheelchairs or with buggies. The
tube is clearly not an ideal environment for such travellers at present
but new trains have to be DDA compliant whether we like it or not. Given
the generally very small numbers of disabled travellers it is a sensible
measure to provide seats - after all Londoners are used to them.

There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip up
seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO.

...and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but
all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed
baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched
perch type seats years ago I seem to recall.

I hate perch seats in areas beside doors. They are neither one thing nor
the other. The upholstered perches at car ends are not a bad idea but
tend to be too high. The poster who commented that anyone who positions
themselves on a perch seat has to both contort their head and splay
their legs had it spot on - I had to do that on a Picc Train the other
morning and it was very uncomfortable.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip
up seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO.

Unless the seats were centrally locked up by the driver, or better still, on
a time switch.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:45:21 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip
up seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO.

Unless the seats were centrally locked up by the driver, or better still, on
a time switch.

I have this mental picture of a sadistic train driver flipping a switch at
4:59 pm and watching 40 people's shocked expressions as they jump up to avoid
being swatted in the bum by their tip-up seats.
--
Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com
|http://www.christianphansen.com or
|http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrishansenhome/

Craig wrote:

Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid
plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it
briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be
embedded in the fabric.....

One model of London bus was fitted out with the back 4 or 5 rows
upstairs in solid plastic - it makes them have a very unpleasant feel -
almost unsafe. Like the screens protecting the drivers, the only
reason they were there is because they were necessary. This doesn't
lead to a feeling of safety.

Perhaps a good hybrid would be to have easily replaceable covers (but
NOT easy to remove without suitable tools!) over a plastic-covered
sprung or sponge seat?

Neil