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New Victoria Line Trains
Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... Just Wondered ! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Craig wrote:
Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... Just Wondered ! Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. I always find this desire to try and ensure everything is microscopically sanitised is pretty pointless and unachievable. Microscopic organisms are an essential part of life on earth. |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T wrote:
Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... Just Wondered ! Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. New Yorkers might accept plastic seats on their subway trains, but I doubt very much Londoners would!!! |
New Victoria Line Trains
On 17 Jul 2006 05:19:31 -0700, Mizter T wrote:
Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. I always find this desire to try and ensure everything is microscopically sanitised is pretty pointless and unachievable. Microscopic organisms are an essential part of life on earth. Indeed. Some of this tube seat hygiene mania may be traced to a hoax email that was doing the rounds a few years ago: http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/london.asp |
New Victoria Line Trains
Stevo wrote: Mizter T wrote: Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... Just Wondered ! Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. New Yorkers might accept plastic seats on their subway trains, but I doubt very much Londoners would!!! It's not like they'd have any choice. They've "accepted" the appalling layout on the Jubilee, where one person can stand in the space occupied by two flip up seats on similar Northern Line stock (because there is no allowance for the top half of the body of a standing passenger, nor the fact that you can't lean on the head of an adjacent seated passenger). I haven't seen the mockup yet, but the diagrams in MR suggested that these obvious shortcomings might have been recognised at last, ie that space needs to be divided efficiently into passenger sized chunks that allow a person to balance without leaning on someone else, whether standing or not, and that wide open space is not necessarily usable. And that people have top halves to their bodies. And that people leaning against a sloping wall have to balance by splaying their legs out further than they would if sitting in a flip up seat. Similar things could be learned about the 376s on SET. Come to think about it, maybe the aliens who designed all these trains should be given lessons in human anatomy. |
New Victoria Line Trains
asdf wrote: On 17 Jul 2006 05:19:31 -0700, Mizter T wrote: Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. I always find this desire to try and ensure everything is microscopically sanitised is pretty pointless and unachievable. Microscopic organisms are an essential part of life on earth. Indeed. Some of this tube seat hygiene mania may be traced to a hoax email that was doing the rounds a few years ago: http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/london.asp In any case, I think fabric reverts to being sittable on faster after spillages than a plastic seat on which puddles of goo would have no way of dissipating. |
New Victoria Line Trains
MIG ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying : Come to think about it, maybe the aliens who designed all these trains should be given lessons in human anatomy. Or just made to use the trains every day...? |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T wrote: Plastic seats, no way! Plastic seats = static shocks |
New Victoria Line Trains
Stevo wrote:
(snip) New Yorkers might accept plastic seats on their subway trains, but I doubt very much Londoners would!!! I actually think plastic seats would create a more amenable or attractive environment for vandalism. Bizarrely, on some London Central buses on the top-deck the back three rows (i.e. the rear-most forward facing, the accompanying backward facing and then the next forward facing rows) are plastic seats. I don't now why this is - perhaps because the occupants of said seats are frequently shifty characters who might be considered more prone to commit vandalism, though I can't see that really being the thinking behind it. However if that really is the logic behind these platic seats then it's a self fulfilling prophecy - said back plastic seats are often the most dirty (more so than the back of other buses), sometimes with the addition of marker pen graffiti on the seats themselves (which I admit absurdly also occurs on fabric seats, but much less frequently). Anyway, thankfully, plastic seats are definitely not on the agenda whatsoever. |
New Victoria Line Trains
asdf wrote:
On 17 Jul 2006 05:19:31 -0700, Mizter T wrote: Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Plastic seats, no way! I think they would be less pleasant and less acceptable. I don't think there's any real hygiene problem at all either. I always find this desire to try and ensure everything is microscopically sanitised is pretty pointless and unachievable. Microscopic organisms are an essential part of life on earth. Indeed. Some of this tube seat hygiene mania may be traced to a hoax email that was doing the rounds a few years ago: http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/london.asp Thanks for linking to that - it was in the back of my mind as I composed my first post. The gist of said hoax email has now become oft-quoted urban mythology. |
New Victoria Line Trains
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:
Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems with such seats have air conditioning. You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat. One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1], Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on / against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create issues and I hope something more practical emerges. [1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T wrote:
Bizarrely, on some London Central buses on the top-deck the back three rows (i.e. the rear-most forward facing, the accompanying backward facing and then the next forward facing rows) are plastic seats. If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! ISTR that some have stuck on fabric and, IME, aren't that uncomfortable even without any real padding. Probably only good for a 10-20 minute journey though. Jonathan |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying : If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't have any plastic seats. Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping everywhere...? |
New Victoria Line Trains
Jonathan Morris wrote: Mizter T wrote: Bizarrely, on some London Central buses on the top-deck the back three rows (i.e. the rear-most forward facing, the accompanying backward facing and then the next forward facing rows) are plastic seats. If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! ISTR that some have stuck on fabric and, IME, aren't that uncomfortable even without any real padding. Probably only good for a 10-20 minute journey though. And I am sure I am not the only person ever to have sat down heavily on one of these disguised plastic seats and bruised myself. |
New Victoria Line Trains
MIG wrote:
And I am sure I am not the only person ever to have sat down heavily on one of these disguised plastic seats and bruised myself. The bits of fabric are only on the base and the back, so there's no way you'll not notice the fact the rest is a solid grey/blue lump of plastic! Jonathan |
New Victoria Line Trains
Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for the passengers ! Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't recall being on any train with those where people have not always been seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others aside to be able to flip them down... ....and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched perch type seats years ago I seem to recall. C On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:14:47 +0100, Paul Corfield wrote: On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... No thank you. I've travelled on systems with both metal and plastic seats and would not wish to have those inflicted on London. IIRC Tim O'Toole - in an internal comms exercise - said that things like fabric seats on trains is a positive aspect of the tube that sets it apart from other systems. If I wish to slide from one end of a side seat to the other under acceleration then I'll go to Hong Kong. Can you imagine sitting on metal or plastic seats in this weather? The other systems with such seats have air conditioning. You may only travel for seconds on the Victoria Line but I can assure you that many, many others travel for at least 20-30 mins each way between the top of the line and Central London and people want a seat. One of the better aspects of the current stock is that they have reasonably comfy seats with a decent amount of space and without enforced orthopaedic surgery. One of the acid tests of the new stock for me will be whether we have comfortable seating or whether we have the horrible cramped upright seating a la refurbed District [1], Northern and Jubilee Lines. Another poster offered some interesting remarks about tip up / perch seats and remarked on the MR article on the new stock. While I take the point about needed something to lean on / against the plans seems to create somewhat gloomy looking divisions inside the cars. From a passenger security viewpoint that will create issues and I hope something more practical emerges. [1] whoever designed the "armrests" on the refurbed stock should be shot. Bloody horrible and uncomfortable. |
New Victoria Line Trains
Adrian wrote:
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't have any plastic seats. Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping everywhere...? I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't restrict themselves to that part of the bus. I think it shall remain a mystery. |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying : If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't have any plastic seats. Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping everywhere...? I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't restrict themselves to that part of the bus. I was thinking more of the drain holes in the floor... |
New Victoria Line Trains
On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:59:59 +0100, Craig wrote:
[big snip] Was just wondering that's all, all points understood - oh and I also travel for the 1320 odd seconds from Walthamstow to Oxford Circus daily, and indeed having thought about how 'bouncy' the ride is and unstable then if anything maybe some bubble wrap would be better for the passengers ! The bouncy ride is far more to do with track quality and the age of the rolling stock. The trains are nearly 40 years old which is the end of their design life. Given that everything on the Victoria Line is nearly 40 years old it's a minor miracle it still runs every day. The bit of track on the northbound between Finsbury Park and Seven Sisters is noticeably quieter and smoother of late - I assume this is where the weekend works are happening. I would still prefer to have a comfy seat cushion on rebuilt track than an orthopaedic bed disguised as a train. Also - the flipdown seats, do the designers really think that during rush hour people will actually stand and not flip them down - I can't recall being on any train with those where people have not always been seated, in fact have seen on numerous occasion people squashing others aside to be able to flip them down... I think the tip up seats are a compromise to deal with making a vestibule area available for those in wheelchairs or with buggies. The tube is clearly not an ideal environment for such travellers at present but new trains have to be DDA compliant whether we like it or not. Given the generally very small numbers of disabled travellers it is a sensible measure to provide seats - after all Londoners are used to them. There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip up seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO. ...and as for the perches - they are acceptable on the Central, but all the others seem to require you to have the posture of a deformed baboon (ok at 6'5 I'm not average height), even Mc Donalds ditched perch type seats years ago I seem to recall. I hate perch seats in areas beside doors. They are neither one thing nor the other. The upholstered perches at car ends are not a bad idea but tend to be too high. The poster who commented that anyone who positions themselves on a perch seat has to both contort their head and splay their legs had it spot on - I had to do that on a Picc Train the other morning and it was very uncomfortable. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Adrian wrote:
Mizter T ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : If you check the floor, you'll see holes that allow water (or other liquids) to drain out. Now I presume people at night have a tendancy to throw up, or urinate on the bus, hence the plastic seats and the drains. Or, perhaps it is so the bus company can literally jet wash them in the depot. Or, both! Said drainholes also exist on many other models of buses that don't have any plastic seats. Could, perhaps, be something to do with lots of people getting on with soaking wet shoes and umbrellas which promptly start dripping everywhere...? I don't think so. I've only ever noticed said plastic seats on a few London Central Bus Co buses, and they're only ever on the last three rows on the top deck. Wet shoes, wet umbrellas and wet clothes don't restrict themselves to that part of the bus. I was thinking more of the drain holes in the floor... Aha, now I understand your comments! Yes, IMO the drian holes are a sensible addtion to bus design - for the reason you state; for draining away any spilt liquid courtesy of an uncourteous passenger; and to drain away excess water used when cleaning/mopping the floor. I reckon the last reason is why they've appeared. |
New Victoria Line Trains
Craig wrote:
Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... One model of London bus was fitted out with the back 4 or 5 rows upstairs in solid plastic - it makes them have a very unpleasant feel - almost unsafe. Like the screens protecting the drivers, the only reason they were there is because they were necessary. This doesn't lead to a feeling of safety. Perhaps a good hybrid would be to have easily replaceable covers (but NOT easy to remove without suitable tools!) over a plastic-covered sprung or sponge seat? Neil |
New Victoria Line Trains
Neil Williams wrote: Craig wrote: Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... One model of London bus was fitted out with the back 4 or 5 rows upstairs in solid plastic - it makes them have a very unpleasant feel - almost unsafe. Like the screens protecting the drivers, the only reason they were there is because they were necessary. This doesn't lead to a feeling of safety. Perhaps a good hybrid would be to have easily replaceable covers (but NOT easy to remove without suitable tools!) over a plastic-covered sprung or sponge seat? Neil Plastic seats on the top-deck of said model of London bus is discussed elsewhere on this thread - you say it's because it's necessary - why? (I dislike them too!). |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mizter T wrote:
Plastic seats on the top-deck of said model of London bus is discussed elsewhere on this thread - you say it's because it's necessary - why? It isn't really, though it would make vandalism of said seats easier to remove, and perhaps discourage people from sitting there "out of sight" where other seats are available. The point was more that bus companies wouldn't do such a thing if there wasn't a good reason for it, even as a failed trial. Thus, like the anti-assault screens, it gives the impression that the bus is perhaps a less safe (from attack) means of transport than it actually is. Neil |
New Victoria Line Trains
All points very valid - can I move on, maybe a little off thread but
still tied in to the Vic Line investment... According to Metronet's website Walthamstow Central will be refurbished by 2006 (ok its nearly August so not too much to look forward to) - anyone know the actual plans ? I know that money ran out in the Vic Line project originally and hence Finsbury Park upwards is basically shell with a light shade ! but will they ever do the decent thing and line the walls etc ever ? ..... also will the link ever open at Walthamstow - I understand that it may be political between plans and plans, Underground/Buses/**** Ken etc; oh and a lot of squabbling, and I know that any plan in E17 seems to be fundementally a bad idea thru failure!! (look around) On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Just wondered if anyone else thinks it would be far more hygenic, more pleasant & acceptable if the decision to no longer cover seats on new trains in fabric was made. Maybe as other mass transit systems use, eg, New York, a hard rigid plastic. Still comfortable to sit on given that you are only on it briefly !!! and not holding hidden all kinds of gunk that must be embedded in the fabric..... Just Wondered ! |
New Victoria Line Trains
C! wrote: Mizter T wrote: Plastic seats, no way! Plastic seats = static shocks I ride the MTA all the time the seats are not bad but im paying less than a pound per trip and that includes a bus transfer. |
New Victoria Line Trains
C! wrote: Mizter T wrote: Plastic seats, no way! Plastic seats = static shocks I ride the MTA all the time the seats are not bad but im paying less than a pound per trip and that includes a bus transfer. |
New Victoria Line Trains
Paul Corfield wrote:
There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip up seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO. Unless the seats were centrally locked up by the driver, or better still, on a time switch. |
New Victoria Line Trains
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:45:21 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Paul Corfield wrote: There is no rule here - unlike Paris - which prohibits the use of tip up seats in the peak. In any event it would be unenforceable IMO. Unless the seats were centrally locked up by the driver, or better still, on a time switch. I have this mental picture of a sadistic train driver flipping a switch at 4:59 pm and watching 40 people's shocked expressions as they jump up to avoid being swatted in the bum by their tip-up seats. -- Chris Hansen | chrishansenhome at btinternet dot com |http://www.christianphansen.com or |http://www.livejournal.com/users/chrishansenhome/ |
New Victoria Line Trains
Christian Hansen wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 02:45:21 +0100, "John Rowland" wrote: Unless the seats were centrally locked up by the driver, or better still, on a time switch. I have this mental picture of a sadistic train driver flipping a switch at 4:59 pm and watching 40 people's shocked expressions as they jump up to avoid being swatted in the bum by their tip-up seats. The obvious solution would be electro-magnets, energised by a switch. Once someone gets up and the seat returns to the upright position it stays there until disengaged. There might be a few people holding seats down whilst someone else takes over the seat but it wouldn't last for long (especially at terminii!). |
New Victoria Line Trains
On 18 Jul 2006 13:38:50 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote: The point was more that bus companies wouldn't do such a thing if there wasn't a good reason for it, even as a failed trial. Thus, like the anti-assault screens, it gives the impression that the bus is perhaps a less safe (from attack) means of transport than it actually is. In a bus I went on in Chicago once, the protection for the driver was even more extreme. You spoke to him through a microphone, and you couldn't pass him cash for your fare - you had to insert your $1 bill or whatever into a motorised slot a bit like on train ticket machines here, then your ticket was printed. The plastic between me and the driver was also pretty thick, and looked like it might have been bulletproof. -- to respond via email, visit: http://tinyurl.com/e48z9 |
New Victoria Line Trains
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote:
Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Well I went to see the mock up early this morning. A bit like a rogue's gallery of people I know but at least staff were showing interest. The main points are a) the train seems wider and taller inside. b) very bright and shiny inside - let's hope they can stay that way. Panels are white, seat covers are a white and blue patterned design. Handrails are a darker blue that Vic Line map blue in order to provide suitable contrast. c) seats are not as wide as now but are not as awful in terms of width as the most recent new stocks and refurbs. d) the seat backs are very upright which sort of pulls you in to provide more gangway space. The seat cushions are decidedly thin. e) there are warning lights at eye level inside the door aperture to show the doors are closing. f) there are white LEDs that illuminate the vestibule just inside the doors. g) the ventilation vents are at above your head if you are seated but are at an awful height in you are standing in the tip up seat area. h) the positions for the passenger alarms and intercoms are not, IMO, ideal as they angled away from users and protrude into the area where someone may have their head as they leave the train. Hard to describe in words but this needs more work. i) the tip up / wheelchair area is most odd. there are six tip up seats with a central partition to allow a wheelchair user to park their chair against it. The top of the seat cushion, when vertical, is shaped so you can perch on it. If you do this and are above 5'7" then your head collides with the vents. j) still in the tip up area there are no horizontal grab rails above the tip up area and no verticals either apart from one to support the partition and even that curves towards the car side. This means everyone standing would have to hold the grab rail on the other half of the ceiling. I understand this issue is going to be sorted out to provide a grabrail - seems the interpretation of the regulations was a little too literal. k) the doors are externally hung - similar to northern and jubilee line trains. l) there are external and internal electronic displays showing the standard destination / next station messages. The DfT, Travelwatch, council representatives and some disabled groups have already been to visit. The Mayor hasn't popped along - yet! Overall not bad but the seating is the worst aspect and I made that point rather forcibly. The initial response was "most people only travel short distances". I replied by saying Walthamstow to Victoria is about a 30 minute journey and uncomfortable seats are not what people expect. In case anyone is in doubt about whether there will be real market research - I've seen misinterpretations of the TFL press release on other groups - there most certainly will be during the public sessions. For those with a genuine interest in anything to do with the Vic Line / Tube or simply as an interested passenger I would recommend visiting if you possibly can. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , but just how many permutations of doors, seating and general visual design can there be before they're happy? Wasn't the 92 stock with its large windows supposed to be the last work in passenger friendly tubes? Then we were all told how amazing the new jubilee and northern stock was. Wouldn't it perhaps be somewhat more responsible of Metromess to save a million or 10 on yet another pointless new train design, order some more 1995 stock trains with any suitable technology upgrades and be done with it. That way the money could be spent where its needed on refurbishing track and signalling. B2003 |
New Victoria Line Trains
Boltar wrote:
Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , but just how many permutations of doors, seating and general visual design can there be before they're happy? If the interior arrangements worked okay in 1938, don't change it! |
New Victoria Line Trains
In article . com,
Boltar wrote: Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , If that exciting new technology is smaller, wouldn't it be nice if some of that space was in the passenger area, rather than being an empty, useless, void? -- I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood. |
New Victoria Line Trains
On 22 Jul 2006 09:53:13 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:
Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , but just how many permutations of doors, seating and general visual design can there be before they're happy? Wasn't the 92 stock with its large windows supposed to be the last work in passenger friendly tubes? Then we were all told how amazing the new jubilee and northern stock was. Wouldn't it perhaps be somewhat more responsible of Metromess to save a million or 10 on yet another pointless new train design, order some more 1995 stock trains with any suitable technology upgrades and be done with it. That way the money could be spent where its needed on refurbishing track and signalling. You seem to imagine that people would wish to buy more 1995 stock. You also seem to imagine that Alstom would sell some to Metronet at a decent price and also provide the necessary IPR to allow Bombardier to maintain them. I have to say that having some limited awareness of Alstom's commercial behaviour I cannot see that happening in a very, very long time. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mike Bristow wrote:
In article . com, Boltar wrote: Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , If that exciting new technology is smaller, wouldn't it be nice if some of that space was in the passenger area, rather than being an empty, useless, void? I was under the impression that that is exactly what is happening with the new 2009 stock. Smaller wheels (740mm diameter), resulting in more space in the passenger saloon. There is an extensive article in the July "Modern Railways", giving full details of Bombardier's design for the new stock. |
New Victoria Line Trains
In article , aooy65
@dsl.pipex.com says... On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Well I went to see the mock up early this morning. A bit like a rogue's gallery of people I know but at least staff were showing interest. A couple of photos are available in this weeks Railway Herald magazine: http://www.railwayherald.com/BackIssues/Issue45.pdf Duncan |
New Victoria Line Trains
Mike Bristow wrote: In article . com, Boltar wrote: Why oh why do they have to keep designing new trains? Sure , use new technology under the floor as and when it becomes available , If that exciting new technology is smaller, wouldn't it be nice if some of that space was in the passenger area, rather than being an empty, useless, void? I thought the trend was for thicker and thicker walls and higher floors, with less and less usable space inside. This was certainly the case with the Central Line stock compared with the 1962 stock it replaced. Removing the seats was meant to make up for it, but didn't really. Some of it may be safety-related, like instead of a handrail protruding a couple of inches, the wall of the train is made two inches thicker so that the rail can be in a recess. (Also angled so that you can't lean against it.) But then, bizarrely, in the Jubilee stock, the doors have windows in deep recesses, the edges of which clout people every time the doors open. |
New Victoria Line Trains
On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:31:59 +0100, Duncan wrote:
In article , aooy65 says... On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:31:00 +0100, Craig wrote: Hi, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5186896.stm Well I went to see the mock up early this morning. A bit like a rogue's gallery of people I know but at least staff were showing interest. A couple of photos are available in this weeks Railway Herald magazine: http://www.railwayherald.com/BackIssues/Issue45.pdf Ta - that looks like a rather interesting magazine. I've never heard of it before. The interior photo of the V stock does help provide some context for my comments. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
New Victoria Line Trains
Paul Corfield wrote: You seem to imagine that people would wish to buy more 1995 stock. You Well they did. Or at least they ordered an update of the 1996 stock which became the 95 stock. also seem to imagine that Alstom would sell some to Metronet at a decent price and also provide the necessary IPR to allow Bombardier to maintain If they earn money from it yes they would. In business money is money is profit. B2003 |
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