Kev wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
"Businesses and residents in London's West End are facing the threat of
a second day of power cuts as engineers work to fix faults in the
system.

On Thursday more than 3,000 people were without electricity as four
faults and a high-demand for air conditioning put extra pressure on the
grid.

Power was cut off in different parts of Soho for four hours at a time."

Mo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5222996.stm


I presume this 'second day' of power cuts is a follow up to last
saturday's problems.

Just wait until all the nukes are shut down and we are dependent on 50%
of our power coming from windmills.

Kevin

The problems were seemingly caused by local substation faults, possibly
partly as a result of the heavy load on the local network (in part the
extra demand related to air-con). There was not a problem of a lack of
electricity generating capacity yesterday, so your comment above is not
relevant whatsoever to these specific problems.

I understand there are basically two interlinked problems. The local
distribution network is old and somewhat frail, and in need of renewal
- there are also repeated suggestions that it is not maintained to a
high enough standard. Additionally the demand for electricity is
significantly higher now than it has been in the past, which places an
extra strain on the frail local network.

And renewable energy is about much more than just windmills.

Mizter T wrote:
Kev wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
"Businesses and residents in London's West End are facing the threat of
a second day of power cuts as engineers work to fix faults in the
system.

On Thursday more than 3,000 people were without electricity as four
faults and a high-demand for air conditioning put extra pressure on the
grid.

Power was cut off in different parts of Soho for four hours at a time."

Mo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5222996.stm


I presume this 'second day' of power cuts is a follow up to last
saturday's problems.

Just wait until all the nukes are shut down and we are dependent on 50%
of our power coming from windmills.

Kevin

The problems were seemingly caused by local substation faults, possibly
partly as a result of the heavy load on the local network (in part the
extra demand related to air-con). There was not a problem of a lack of
electricity generating capacity yesterday, so your comment above is not
relevant whatsoever to these specific problems.

I understand there are basically two interlinked problems. The local
distribution network is old and somewhat frail, and in need of renewal
- there are also repeated suggestions that it is not maintained to a
high enough standard. Additionally the demand for electricity is
significantly higher now than it has been in the past, which places an
extra strain on the frail local network.

And renewable energy is about much more than just windmills.

I understand that the current problems are not capacity related but it
is never the less a good indicator of where we are heading. All those
people are complaining now is just a precurser to what is going to
happen.
We also had a massive increase in the price of gas yesterday with more
to follow and what method of filling the short term gap did the
Government propose?

Kevin

Kev wrote:

(snip)

I understand that the current problems are not capacity related but it
is never the less a good indicator of where we are heading. All those
people are complaining now is just a precurser to what is going to
happen.
We also had a massive increase in the price of gas yesterday with more
to follow and what method of filling the short term gap did the
Government propose?

Kevin

I'm not at ease with the legacy nuclear power leaves behind - I'm not
happy with the idea that to sort out our energy needs today we'll be
leaving a significant problem for future generations to deal with.

With actual commitment I think that a big growth in generating
electricity from renewable sources combined with the savings from
properly implemented energy efficiency means we can meet electricity
needs. I don't think this is pie in the sky wishy washy green nonsense,
I think it's attainable, but people need to really go for it.

Mizter T wrote:
Kev wrote:

(snip)

I understand that the current problems are not capacity related but it
is never the less a good indicator of where we are heading. All those
people are complaining now is just a precurser to what is going to
happen.
We also had a massive increase in the price of gas yesterday with more
to follow and what method of filling the short term gap did the
Government propose?

Kevin

I'm not at ease with the legacy nuclear power leaves behind - I'm not
happy with the idea that to sort out our energy needs today we'll be
leaving a significant problem for future generations to deal with.

With actual commitment I think that a big growth in generating
electricity from renewable sources combined with the savings from
properly implemented energy efficiency means we can meet electricity
needs. I don't think this is pie in the sky wishy washy green nonsense,
I think it's attainable, but people need to really go for it.

I'd love somebody to convince me that I can cut my home energy use by
20% due to more efficient use of power. The bulk of people affected at
the moment are of course businesses and I don't see them giving up
their air conditioners.

Kevin

Kev wrote:
I'd love somebody to convince me that I can cut my home energy use by
20% due to more efficient use of power. The bulk of people affected at
the moment are of course businesses and I don't see them giving up
their air conditioners.

Well, I fitted power saving bulbs to all of our lights at home (well,
not the halogens but I suppose I could get LED ones for them) and that
has made a huge difference. Not just in consumption terms, but cost.
Mind you, it's not just about saving the planet, as it also means I can
be slightly less worried about leaving lights on.

The garden has a mix of LED lights that are the newer super-bright type
and very effective. The decking lights are LEDs and there's not much
else in the house to take a lot of power (besides the electric oven,
microwave and kettle). The portable air conditioner we have also sucks
power, but isn't on all the time.

At least by saving energy where possible, you're not making as much
impact as you otherwise might have been (and 60-100Watt light bulbs
quickly add up).

I'd love to fit solar panels to the roof to make myself more
self-sufficient. I am sure they could provide enough power for a lot of
my total consumption, although the cost of installing them probably
makes them prohibitive. Am I paying to potentially save money, or to
save the environment (ignoring the environmental cost of producing the
panels in the first place).

If offices had to turn off all computers and lights when shut, that
would make a massive difference. Even the air conditioning can be
turned off in an empty building, with a timer that will start it ahead
of its reopening to allow sufficient cooling. Perhaps this would need
enforcing, and there lies another problem! The thing is, reducing
consumption should be more important than finding new ways of
generating power.

Jonathan

If offices had to turn off all computers and lights when shut, that
would make a massive difference.

Absolutely - standing at the bottom of One Canada Square at 11pm on
Friday night - it's quite shocking to see so many lights still on.
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Mizter T wrote:
And renewable energy is about much more than just windmills.

In any case, put the windmills in a sufficiently diverse variety
of locations, and the chances of all of them having no wind
at the same time is pretty much negligible.

#Paul

wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
And renewable energy is about much more than just windmills.

In any case, put the windmills in a sufficiently diverse variety
of locations, and the chances of all of them having no wind
at the same time is pretty much negligible.

.... as is the contribution that those that are spinning will make to the
nation's energy needs.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)