kytelly wrote:

(snip)

I think John has hit the nail on the head when he says [Apart from
Crossrail 1 and 2] this is possibly the only alignment left through the
middle of London and it could be a case of use it or lose it.


The use it or lose it angle is pretty interesting.

One could argue that the TfL planners realise there's no possibility of
a DLR CX extension getting the green light anytime soon - but by openly
contemplating the idea they can stake their continued claim on the
safeguarded "Fleet line" alignment. This way, they can at least leave
open the possibility of tunnelling along that alignment in the future
after the next wave of buildings have gone up.

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide. However - if these rumours of a DLR
exntension proposal are true - perhaps the DLR would merely be playing
the "useful idiot" role that would provide TfL with a continuing
justification for keeping the "Fleet line" route safeguarded.

How such a safeguarded route would be used in the future, if the DLR
didn't use it, is another question!

Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be much
more practical.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be much
more practical.



All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely! The
determination to see every bit of infrastructure re-used somehow is
most amusing, especially when such plans involve building new
infrastructure 10x that which will be saved for re-use!

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

Mizter T wrote:

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth. They can't lengthen the platforms the other way, due
to the gradient. So there would be no access to the old route from the
Thameslink lines. There would, of course, be the possibility of using
said area to extend the Met line sidings at Farringdon in that
direction.

Andy wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth. They can't lengthen the platforms the other way, due
to the gradient. So there would be no access to the old route from the
Thameslink lines. There would, of course, be the possibility of using
said area to extend the Met line sidings at Farringdon in that
direction.

Aha - I hadn't realised that, thanks for the info. It makes perfect
sense as the Farringdon platforms can't be extended the other way as
the line is on a steep gradient.

The trackbed could be used for Met line sidings, if LU thought that
useful. I guess the trackbed could be built on - but given the
location, in a cutting, it's not ideal. It'll probably just lie empty,
for several years at least.

Mizter T wrote:

The trackbed could be used for Met line sidings, if LU thought that
useful. I guess the trackbed could be built on - but given the
location, in a cutting, it's not ideal. It'll probably just lie empty,
for several years at least.

Personally, I'd like to see it turned into a market market with stalls
all along the route, to make up for the damage Thameslink 2012 is going
to do to Borough Market. But that's just me.

On 17 Oct 2006 12:02:32 -0700, Andy wrote:

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth.

I'm reminded of the erstwhile arrangement at Wood Lane on the Central
Line, where IIRC the track leading to the depot was occupied by a
hinged part of the platform, which could be swung away if a train
needed to access the depot. Not sure they'd be too keen on that today
though...

asdf wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 12:02:32 -0700, Andy wrote:

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth.

I'm reminded of the erstwhile arrangement at Wood Lane on the Central
Line, where IIRC the track leading to the depot was occupied by a
hinged part of the platform, which could be swung away if a train
needed to access the depot. Not sure they'd be too keen on that today
though...

That also crossed my mind. I can't possibly see who would complain
about a modern-day reprieve of that ingenious solution...

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

tom

--
Taking care of business