DLR to Charing Cross
 

Ok, this is probably nothing more than just internet gossip and rumour,
but what else is the internet really for?

Anyway, the rumour is that a decision on an extension of the DLR to
Charing Cross will be made on 30th Oct with a projected completion date
of 'before 2020'.

And I've absolutely no sources to show you - like I said, it's just
complete rumour ('man in the pub said..'). Someone else here may know
more about it?

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Stevie wrote:
Ok, this is probably nothing more than just internet gossip and rumour,
but what else is the internet really for?

Anyway, the rumour is that a decision on an extension of the DLR to
Charing Cross will be made on 30th Oct with a projected completion date
of 'before 2020'.

And I've absolutely no sources to show you - like I said, it's just
complete rumour ('man in the pub said..'). Someone else here may know
more about it?

Rumours are around as that corridor has always had a line of sorts.
Called the Fleet line if I remember.

It was rumoured at some point to be the extension to the Jubilee line
before the Docklands took off and they decided to run it through there.

But. What use is an extension to Charing Cross. The District line from
either Monument or Tower Gateway fulfils that brief quite adequately.
DLR is far better off being extended elsewhere.

However I wouldn't put it passed Ken to spend millions putting back old
railway lines. ;-)

A.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Londoncityslicker wrote:


Rumours are around as that corridor has always had a line of sorts.
Called the Fleet line if I remember.


However I wouldn't put it passed Ken to spend millions putting back old
railway lines. ;-)


The Fleet Line was the original name of the Jubilee Line. The intention
was to extend the Jubilee Line via Aldwych rather than via Waterloo but
apart from tunnels extending from the now-disused platforms at Charing
Cross none of it actually exsists. There's no 'old railway line' to open.

There was a discussion here a while back about the pros and cons of the
DLR extension to Charing X. The use of the jubilee line platforms at
charing cross and the lift shafts at Aldwych would lower the cost of
doing it from scratch, but AIUI the platform at Bank points north
instead of west

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Londoncityslicker wrote:
Stevie wrote:
Ok, this is probably nothing more than just internet gossip and rumour,
but what else is the internet really for?

Anyway, the rumour is that a decision on an extension of the DLR to
Charing Cross will be made on 30th Oct with a projected completion date
of 'before 2020'.

And I've absolutely no sources to show you - like I said, it's just
complete rumour ('man in the pub said..'). Someone else here may know
more about it?

Rumours are around as that corridor has always had a line of sorts.
Called the Fleet line if I remember.

It was rumoured at some point to be the extension to the Jubilee line
before the Docklands took off and they decided to run it through there.

But. What use is an extension to Charing Cross. The District line from
either Monument or Tower Gateway fulfils that brief quite adequately.
DLR is far better off being extended elsewhere.

However I wouldn't put it passed Ken to spend millions putting back old
railway lines. ;-)



The the extension of the DLR will assist with creeping privatisation I
suspect, since the DLR isn't run by LU.

But my problem with it is that there would then be stumps at both Tower
Gateway and Bank. Various unpleasant possibilities a

1) One of the stumps closes.

2) There are infrequent or irregular services to each branch.

3) There are truncated journeys with limited patterns.

I know it's a bit like that already, but this could result in an
increased number of changes for existing journeys, despite it
apparently being a new through service. The DLR will effectively be
divided into a number of separate lines, even more than it currently is.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Stuart wrote:
Londoncityslicker wrote:


Rumours are around as that corridor has always had a line of sorts.
Called the Fleet line if I remember.


However I wouldn't put it passed Ken to spend millions putting back old
railway lines. ;-)


The Fleet Line was the original name of the Jubilee Line. The intention
was to extend the Jubilee Line via Aldwych rather than via Waterloo but
apart from tunnels extending from the now-disused platforms at Charing
Cross none of it actually exsists. There's no 'old railway line' to open.

There was a discussion here a while back about the pros and cons of the
DLR extension to Charing X. The use of the jubilee line platforms at
charing cross and the lift shafts at Aldwych would lower the cost of
doing it from scratch, but AIUI the platform at Bank points north
instead of west


It definitely wouldn't be extended from Bank, it would be a new branch.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Stuart wrote:
Londoncityslicker wrote:


Rumours are around as that corridor has always had a line of sorts.
Called the Fleet line if I remember.

However I wouldn't put it passed Ken to spend millions putting back
old railway lines. ;-)


The Fleet Line was the original name of the Jubilee Line. The
intention was to extend the Jubilee Line via Aldwych rather than via
Waterloo but apart from tunnels extending from the now-disused
platforms at Charing Cross none of it actually exsists. There's no
'old railway line' to open.

Because of deep foundations, few alignments for railways in the city are now
possible. The alignment from Fenchurch Street to Charing Cross was
safeguarded for the River/Fleet line, and so survived development for
decades. The office block on Cannon Street station was even built with a
hole through the foundations for the railway to fit through. The alignment
might even still be safeguarded, for all I know. So you could say that the
"old railway line" is still there on paper waiting to be opened.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

MIG wrote:

The the extension of the DLR will assist with creeping privatisation I
suspect, since the DLR isn't run by LU.

But my problem with it is that there would then be stumps at both Tower
Gateway and Bank. Various unpleasant possibilities a

1) One of the stumps closes.

2) There are infrequent or irregular services to each branch.

3) There are truncated journeys with limited patterns.

I know it's a bit like that already, but this could result in an
increased number of changes for existing journeys, despite it
apparently being a new through service. The DLR will effectively be
divided into a number of separate lines, even more than it currently is.

Maybe they could close Tower Gateway and have an station below ground
at Tower Hill on the new Charing X branch? That way the
Circle/District would get a decent connection with the DLR at long last.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

wrote:
MIG wrote:

The the extension of the DLR will assist with creeping privatisation I
suspect, since the DLR isn't run by LU.

But my problem with it is that there would then be stumps at both Tower
Gateway and Bank. Various unpleasant possibilities a

1) One of the stumps closes.

2) There are infrequent or irregular services to each branch.

3) There are truncated journeys with limited patterns.

I know it's a bit like that already, but this could result in an
increased number of changes for existing journeys, despite it
apparently being a new through service. The DLR will effectively be
divided into a number of separate lines, even more than it currently is.

Maybe they could close Tower Gateway and have an station below ground
at Tower Hill on the new Charing X branch? That way the
Circle/District would get a decent connection with the DLR at long last.

The interchange between DLR and tube at Tower is far faster and less
hassle than most other big interchanges in town.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Stuart wrote:
doing it from scratch, but AIUI the platform at Bank points north
instead of west

That doesn't matter. DLR trains can go around some pretty severe curves
so what might be an issue for a tube line is a no brainer for the DLR.
Judging by the curves in the docklands area they could have the train
running west again in as little as 50 metres.

B2003

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Stuart wrote:
apart from tunnels extending from the now-disused platforms at Charing
Cross

Disused for passengers but probably a little goldmine for LU judging by
the number of times they keep popping up in adverts and films. And
then theres to useful stabling and reversing facilities they provide.
My guess is LU would be somewhat reluctant to lose them.

B2003

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Boltar wrote:

Disused for passengers but probably a little goldmine for LU judging by
the number of times they keep popping up in adverts and films. And
then theres to useful stabling and reversing facilities they provide.
My guess is LU would be somewhat reluctant to lose them.

Is there so much demand for filming etc. that they need both CX and
Aldwych?

Neil

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Londoncityslicker wrote:


The interchange between DLR and tube at Tower is far faster and less
hassle than most other big interchanges in town.

In good weather, yes. It's not so great in cold wind and rain.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Neil Williams wrote:
Boltar wrote:

Disused for passengers but probably a little goldmine for LU judging by
the number of times they keep popping up in adverts and films. And
then theres to useful stabling and reversing facilities they provide.
My guess is LU would be somewhat reluctant to lose them.

Is there so much demand for filming etc. that they need both CX and
Aldwych?

I would say so, and we would soon get sick of seeing just Aldwych
representing all underground staions!:-) (Last saw CHX standing in for
Stockwell for a Panarama re-enactment of the shooting there, dont think
it would have looked right using Aldwych for that)

I think John has hit the nail on the head when he says [Apart from
Crossrail 1 and 2] this is possibly the only alignment left through the
middle of London and it could be a case of use it or lose it.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Boltar wrote:

Stuart wrote:
apart from tunnels extending from the now-disused platforms at Charing
Cross

Disused for passengers but probably a little goldmine for LU judging by
the number of times they keep popping up in adverts and films. And
then theres to useful stabling and reversing facilities they provide.
My guess is LU would be somewhat reluctant to lose them.

B2003

AIUI the Jubilee line doesn't use CX for day to day operational
purposes (I don't think they use it to stable trains there at all). And
the LU film unit certainly doesn't have a veto on big infrastructure
projects even if it means they lose a film set! So both of those
'concerns' regarding such a proposal are not important.

I'd say the real questions are - (1) is a DLR extension to CX a good
idea, and if so (2) is there any chance the Treasury will loosen their
purse strings and stump up for it?

DLR to Charing Cross
 

kytelly wrote:

(snip)

I think John has hit the nail on the head when he says [Apart from
Crossrail 1 and 2] this is possibly the only alignment left through the
middle of London and it could be a case of use it or lose it.


The use it or lose it angle is pretty interesting.

One could argue that the TfL planners realise there's no possibility of
a DLR CX extension getting the green light anytime soon - but by openly
contemplating the idea they can stake their continued claim on the
safeguarded "Fleet line" alignment. This way, they can at least leave
open the possibility of tunnelling along that alignment in the future
after the next wave of buildings have gone up.

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide. However - if these rumours of a DLR
exntension proposal are true - perhaps the DLR would merely be playing
the "useful idiot" role that would provide TfL with a continuing
justification for keeping the "Fleet line" route safeguarded.

How such a safeguarded route would be used in the future, if the DLR
didn't use it, is another question!

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

DLR to Charing Cross
 

MIG wrote:
I know it's a bit like that already, but this could result in an
increased number of changes for existing journeys, despite it
apparently being a new through service. The DLR will effectively be
divided into a number of separate lines, even more than it currently is.

I suspect we'll be seeing different DLR line colours on the map fairly
soon to denote different services...

DLR to Charing Cross
 

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be much
more practical.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Yeah I suspect as much. The only other central london extension for the
DLR that has been speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an
extension from Bank station, somehow linking up with the soon to be
abandoned Moorgate to Faringdon Thameslink line.

Now would this hit the same obstacles as the oft suggested
Moorgate-Cannon Street connector? i.e. the vaults of the old lady of
Threadneedle street getting in the way? Or could a route be treaded
through somehow?

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be much
more practical.



All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely! The
determination to see every bit of infrastructure re-used somehow is
most amusing, especially when such plans involve building new
infrastructure 10x that which will be saved for re-use!

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

In article .com,
(Mizter T) wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX
would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Not exactly the Docklands any more!


--
Paul Cummins

**FREE** mobile phones, with FREE line rental
http://www.gstgroup.co.uk/

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Paul Cummins wrote:

In article .com,
(Mizter T) wrote:

I'm far from convinced that taking the DLR down this route to CX
would
be a good idea - I forsee the potential demand far outstripping the
capacity the DLR could provide.

Not exactly the Docklands any more!


Though one should of course be careful of such logic - Epping and West
Ruislip aren't 'Central', Chesham and Amersham aren't 'Metropolitan',
Morden isn't 'Northern', and much of the Underground isn't 'under'!

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Mizter T wrote:

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth. They can't lengthen the platforms the other way, due
to the gradient. So there would be no access to the old route from the
Thameslink lines. There would, of course, be the possibility of using
said area to extend the Met line sidings at Farringdon in that
direction.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Andy wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

The use for Moorgate - Farringdon I'd argue for is to retain at least
some of the track as sidings for use if and when Thameslink (and the
'upcoming' extension thereof, Thameslink 5000) went snafu. It would be
a useful place to put a defective train out of harms way, thus helping
with service recovery.

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth. They can't lengthen the platforms the other way, due
to the gradient. So there would be no access to the old route from the
Thameslink lines. There would, of course, be the possibility of using
said area to extend the Met line sidings at Farringdon in that
direction.

Aha - I hadn't realised that, thanks for the info. It makes perfect
sense as the Farringdon platforms can't be extended the other way as
the line is on a steep gradient.

The trackbed could be used for Met line sidings, if LU thought that
useful. I guess the trackbed could be built on - but given the
location, in a cutting, it's not ideal. It'll probably just lie empty,
for several years at least.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:
Mizter T wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

tom

--
Taking care of business

DLR to Charing Cross
 

In article . com,
(Mizter T) wrote:

AIUI the Jubilee line doesn't use CX for day to day operational
purposes (I don't think they use it to stable trains there at all).

I've seen Green Park reversers go that way regularly after emptying. It's
uncanny how straight the tunnel is from Green Park, unlike the EJL which
turns off the old route almost on the platform ends.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.


No - I hadn't read that, but it would naturally be excluded from my
mental list of "wacky and fantastically unlikely", as it would be
serving a genuinely useful purpose. The rest of the plans however
appear to be obsessed with turning this dog-leg of trackbed into the
most important public transport nexus this side of the Milky Way.

I've just thought of how it could come in useful - Crossrail is
(apparently) coming to Farringdon, so could perhaps make use of some of
the trackbed for digging an access shaft or, more likely, for storage
of materials (such as the site foreman's portacabin!).

Once construction is finished then it would of course them be turned
over to Steam On The Met. Only problem is I suspect every last steam
engine might have completely oxidised by then. And people will be long
extinct. Nevermind - the Crossrail tunnels will come in handy for the
new-breed of super rat to get about London quickly.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On 17 Oct 2006 15:59:26 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

I've just thought of how it could come in useful - Crossrail is
(apparently) coming to Farringdon, so could perhaps make use of some of
the trackbed for digging an access shaft or, more likely, for storage
of materials (such as the site foreman's portacabin!).

The Crossrail plans did involve using this trackbed (I can't remember
if it was for construction or for new parts of Farringdon station).
But a year or two ago, as TL2k receded further and further into the
mists of the future, such usage was removed from the plans, to prevent
Crossrail from being contingent on TL2k (which might happen after
Crossrail, or never).

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article . com,
(Mizter T) wrote:

AIUI the Jubilee line doesn't use CX for day to day operational
purposes (I don't think they use it to stable trains there at all).

I've seen Green Park reversers go that way regularly after emptying. It's
uncanny how straight the tunnel is from Green Park, unlike the EJL which
turns off the old route almost on the platform ends.

I still don't really understand why they didn't keep CX open for peak
hour
or occasional trains so instead of reversing at green park the train
and
passengers just continue to CX. After all , apart from not having to
clean the platforms so often wheres the gain in closing them? I know
theres always the alternative routes argument but you could use that
argument for any number of central london stations but I don't see a
rush to close them too.

B2003

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Boltar wrote:
I still don't really understand why they didn't keep CX open for peak
hour
or occasional trains so instead of reversing at green park the train
and
passengers just continue to CX. After all , apart from not having to
clean the platforms so often wheres the gain in closing them? I know
theres always the alternative routes argument but you could use that
argument for any number of central london stations but I don't see a
rush to close them too.

The problem is that if you reverse an EB Jubilee line train at CX it
can't serve the extension - any trains reversed at CX mean a gap in
service from Westminster to Stratford.

If the service to CX was frequent enough to make it worthwhile - say
one train in three - that would mean a 4-6 minute gap in the service on
the extension every 6-10 minutes or so. Unacceptable for extension
passengers, and there's no corresponding facility to reverse trains
clear of service trains on the extension until you're as far east as
North Greenwich.

If the service to CX was infrequent - say a train every 20 minutes - it
would almost invariably be quicker for any potential passengers for CX
to change to the Bakerloo at Baker Street or to walk from Green Park or
Westminster.

There was talk in the mid-90s of having CX available for occasional
extra services to Wembley Park. As far as I know this doesn't happen,
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

Whether leaving the stub in the first place was the right decision is
an entirely different matter though! I remember seeing some rationale
about why the decision was taken to go Green Park - Westminster -
Waterloo - London Bridge rather than another routing using the CX
branch, but can't remember the exact conclusions or the relative merits
of about four or five options considered for the Green Park - Docklands
route of the extension.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On 17 Oct 2006 12:02:32 -0700, Andy wrote:

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth.

I'm reminded of the erstwhile arrangement at Wood Lane on the Central
Line, where IIRC the track leading to the depot was occupied by a
hinged part of the platform, which could be swung away if a train
needed to access the depot. Not sure they'd be too keen on that today
though...

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On 18 Oct 2006 02:55:21 -0700, Boltar wrote:

I still don't really understand why they didn't keep CX open for peak
hour
or occasional trains so instead of reversing at green park the train
and
passengers just continue to CX. After all , apart from not having to
clean the platforms so often wheres the gain in closing them?

IIRC the escalators to the Jubilee line platforms at CX were
officially "life-expired" and would have had to have been replaced for
passengers to continue to have been allowed to access the platforms.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

B2003

DLR to Charing Cross
 

asdf wrote:
IIRC the escalators to the Jubilee line platforms at CX were
officially "life-expired" and would have had to have been replaced for
passengers to continue to have been allowed to access the platforms.

Fair enough , but if the usage would be as low as LU suggested once
the JLE opened then they could just shut the escaltors down and
leave them to be used as stairs and let the public decide if they
could be bothered to walk it or not.

B2003

DLR to Charing Cross
 

asdf wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 12:02:32 -0700, Andy wrote:

Isn't the reason for the deletion of the Farringdon to Moorgate line,
with Thameslink Millenium edition, due to the lengthening of the
Farringdon platforms to 12 cars across the Moorgate trackbed towards
the tunnel mouth.

I'm reminded of the erstwhile arrangement at Wood Lane on the Central
Line, where IIRC the track leading to the depot was occupied by a
hinged part of the platform, which could be swung away if a train
needed to access the depot. Not sure they'd be too keen on that today
though...

That also crossed my mind. I can't possibly see who would complain
about a modern-day reprieve of that ingenious solution...

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On 18 Oct 2006 07:36:51 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:


Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

The reason is that the benefit to that one passenger is massively offset
by the huge volumes of people with longer wait times and far more
congested travelling conditions on the extension. In short the
disbenefits outweigh the benefits and there is no way on earth that a
business case could be constructed to allow re-opening as per your
suggestion. LU would not be in compliance with the appraisal
methodology set out by TfL / DfT if it was to ignore the disbenefit of
lower service levels on the extension.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

I think the comment by another poster about the escalators being life
expired is correct. Given the depth of the platforms - even from the
intermediate level - I do not believe a stair only option would be
considered acceptable or safe. I'm sure there are standards relating to
this sort of thing and there may also be evacuation issues as well.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Boltar wrote:
Harry G wrote:
but perhaps it might be considered when Wembley Stadium opens - not for
passenger use at CX, but simply to allow extra shuttles to serve the
Baker Street to Wembley Park section.

But in that case why not just allow passengers on the train to and from
CX? If no one uses it then is no different to the station being used as
a reverser , but if even only 1 person uses the service then its been
of some use.

If they'd closed the branch completely , taken up the track and so
forth
then obviously it would be futile to talking about re-opening the
platforms
to passengers. But its all still in fully working order AFAIK and the
only thing
they'd need to do to allow passengers back on is knock down the
partition they've put up in front of the escalators.

I don't think Green Park reversers are common in normal service, so
there's little point keeping CX open for normal service either. As for
special services, like someone else mentioned, you'd need to replace the
escalators (I'm not sure using them as fixed stairs would be allowed -
people would arrive at CX unaware that the exit involves a trudge up the
stairs, and you might need the capacity of escalators if the station is
meant to be used for special events at Wembley).

There would also be a staffing cost for the CX platforms if kept open
(not sure how many staff would be needed).

The other point is that the number of journeys benefiting from being
able to board the Jubilee line directly at Charing Cross is minimal.
People on overground trains can use Southwark or London Bridge instead;
interchange from the District line is accomplished at Westminster, and
Northern/Bakerloo interchange can take place at Waterloo. The remainder
of passengers will be heading either for buses (unlikely) or for the
immediate vicinity of the station - and it's unlikely that special
events at Wembley will require mass movement from Trafalgar Square.

In fact, the reverse is true - special events at Wembley would be best
served by running a full-frequency service all the way to North
Greenwich or Stratford, so that the largest number of people can be
served. Diverting some trains to CX would decrease frequency on the
extension, which would be silly when demand for travel to Wembley is
likely to be higher from Waterloo or London Bridge than Charing Cross
(particularly given that, as mentioned, overground passengers to Charing
Cross can use London Bridge or Southwark anyway with equal ease).


--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Mizter T wrote:

The trackbed could be used for Met line sidings, if LU thought that
useful. I guess the trackbed could be built on - but given the
location, in a cutting, it's not ideal. It'll probably just lie empty,
for several years at least.

Personally, I'd like to see it turned into a market market with stalls
all along the route, to make up for the damage Thameslink 2012 is going
to do to Borough Market. But that's just me.

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Dave Arquati wrote in :


I don't think Green Park reversers are common in normal service, so
there's little point keeping CX open for normal service either. As for
special services, like someone else mentioned, you'd need to replace the
escalators (I'm not sure using them as fixed stairs would be allowed -
people would arrive at CX unaware that the exit involves a trudge up the
stairs, ...).


Wouldn't you need to provide a lift (for disabled access) as well?

DLR to Charing Cross
 

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

Once construction is finished then it would of course them be turned
over to Steam On The Met. Only problem is I suspect every last steam
engine might have completely oxidised by then.

Nonsense - WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STRATEGIC RESERVE IS FOR?!

And people will be long extinct. Nevermind - the Crossrail tunnels will
come in handy for the new-breed of super rat to get about London
quickly.

Except that, as per one of my other far-sighted schemes, they'll have been
converted into subterranean canals.

Oh, but rats can swim, can't they? Okay, fair enough.

tom

--
Magic of a sufficiently advanced form is indistinguishable from science

DLR to Charing Cross
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, Mizter T wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

kytelly wrote:

The only other central london extension for the DLR that has been
speculated about (Albeit mainly on here!) is an extension from Bank
station, somehow linking up with the soon to be abandoned Moorgate to
Faringdon Thameslink line.

I think that route is proposed on here for its own sake (UTLers don't
like good railway alignments to go to waste...). If a route were
actually proposed in this direction, a new tunnel would probably be
much more practical.

All the ideas I've read on here for using the Moorgate to Farringdon
alignment are pretty wacky and fantastically unlikely!

I presume you're not including my idea of running a permanent Steam On The
Met service on it in that.

Once construction is finished then it would of course them be turned
over to Steam On The Met. Only problem is I suspect every last steam
engine might have completely oxidised by then.

Nonsense - WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STRATEGIC RESERVE IS FOR?!


And people will be long extinct. Nevermind - the Crossrail tunnels will
come in handy for the new-breed of super rat to get about London
quickly.

Except that, as per one of my other far-sighted schemes, they'll have been
converted into subterranean canals.

Oh, but rats can swim, can't they? Okay, fair enough.


You're so far ahead of me Tom it's scary. Why oh why isn't Peter Hendy
banging on your door begging you to take the position of hyper-farsight
planner?