|
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern
Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message ... Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? Nothing has changed. The lines are as close together now as they were when the rail line was built in 1930 (the underground line was completed in 1926). The track at the underground depot almost touches the National rail line, except that it is 20 feet below it. There's no technical reason why they couldn't be joined, just financial and operation ones. tim |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? Morden to Morden South station is only about half a mile distant, but more to the point is the fact that Morden underground depot ends next to the Sutton end of Morden South Station. The gradient to connect the two can't be worse than the rest of the line to Sutton. But there are plans (which will probably never happen) to connect Morden South to Morden Road tramlink station. Of course the platforms for Tramlink & the Sutton loop at Wimbledon are next to each other. -- Regards Vauxhall |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Funnily enough Merton Council recently enquired about an extension to
Morden South and on to Sutton. As expected it came back negative and extending to Sutton would be very expensive given that new platforms would need to be provided. It is a scheme that should be considered in the longer term but it is on a mere wish-list at the moment. Vauxhall Victor wrote: Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? Morden to Morden South station is only about half a mile distant, but more to the point is the fact that Morden underground depot ends next to the Sutton end of Morden South Station. The gradient to connect the two can't be worse than the rest of the line to Sutton. But there are plans (which will probably never happen) to connect Morden South to Morden Road tramlink station. Of course the platforms for Tramlink & the Sutton loop at Wimbledon are next to each other. -- Regards Vauxhall |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
wrote in message ups.com... Funnily enough Merton Council recently enquired about an extension to Morden South and on to Sutton. As expected it came back negative and extending to Sutton would be very expensive given that new platforms would need to be provided. It is a scheme that should be considered in the longer term but it is on a mere wish-list at the moment. As it has been for 70 years. Don't expect it in your lifetime. tim |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? By strange coincidence, clearing out my inbox this evening I find a link to an article on the planned construction of the Wimbledon - Sutton line (by the District Railway) with the idea of through running from the extended Northern Line to Sutton. The Southern Railway were against it and the result is what we have today. See http://www.semg.org.uk/RlyMag/WimbledonSuttonRly.pdf regards HN28 |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today? Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k at Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage can probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per direction), many other London stations with that level of service achieve much better patronage. Since there are not many other nearby competing stations, this all implies that the stations are in pretty inconvenient locations, and a Northern line extension probably wouldn't attract anywhere near enough passengers to justify the cost, particularly given the lengthy journey into London - in fact, journey times could be longer than they are now (albeit offset by a higher service frequency). Even the mooted Tramlink route from Wimbledon to Sutton - for which two routes were proposed, one of which took over this railway - has been dropped down the priority list in favour of Sutton to Tooting via St Helier (the hospital rather than the existing station), Mitcham Junction and Mitcham. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k at Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage can probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per direction), many other London stations with that level of service achieve much better patronage. I grew up in the background of these lines. The Express Dairy School trip was a highlight. We saw a good train on the Morden South Siding. The dairy is gone now replaced by a mosque. There used to be reasonably decent trains from Morden South/South Merton to London Bridge via Tulse Hill. (circa 1970) Nowadays the Thameslink circular route and timetable is so broken that the stations just arent practical even though you can actually park right outside them without paying most times!. The line and timetable doesnt work in 3 ways. 1) Its out of phase with connections at Sutton and Wimbledon. Always you seem to have to wait 30 minutes as the connection you wanted just left. 2) Getting to Kings Cross Thameslink (the only time I use these trains now) from Wimbledon takes over an hour including lots of what seems to be 10mph chugging. 3) Its *very* hard to fathom out where the trains are going since they are timetabled 'Sutton' or not at all - they often dont show up on the Wimbledon destination boards at all even though they are on the online timetable. I think its such a shame there isnt a better (fast, joined up, publiscised) service and a Morden Tube connection. Add that to a couple of decent car parks and you would take a lot of heat away from Wimbledon and Morden in the rush. mysteryflyer |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message ... Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k at Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage can probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per direction), many other London stations with that level of service achieve much better patronage. I grew up in the background of these lines. The Express Dairy School trip was a highlight. We saw a good train on the Morden South Siding. I missed out on that treat. The best we got was a trip to see the Haig homes. tim |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
|
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Mystery Flyer wrote:
The line and timetable doesnt work in 3 ways. (snip) 2) Getting to Kings Cross Thameslink (the only time I use these trains now) from Wimbledon takes over an hour including lots of what seems to be 10mph chugging. Wimbledon to KX Thameslink is 44 minutes according to the timetable. Wimbledon - Vauxhall - KXSP via Victoria Line is quicker of course, though more of a hassle with heavy luggage. Obviously if you're coming from a station between Sutton and Wimbledon the Thameslink journey will take longer. I agree that there does seem to be considerable amount of "10mph chugging",as you put it, on this route. There train often wait at the platforms at Herne Hill and Blackfriars, and there's a general sense of sluggishness. 3) Its *very* hard to fathom out where the trains are going since they are timetabled 'Sutton' or not at all - they often don't show up on the Wimbledon destination boards at all even though they are on the online timetable. I think the trains are either described as Sutton via Wimbledon if they're going clockwise, or Wimbledon via Sutton if anti-clockwise (though perhaps the via point doesn't appear all the time). I've not had information problems at Wimbledon before, at least not with the indicator on the bi-directional Thameslink platform - it has correctly shown clockwise departures to Sutton, and anti-clockwise (i.e. via central London) departures to Luton/Bedford/St. Albans. |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Was the line ever in Beeching plans for closure. The trouble with the
line is that on many of the stations St Helier, Morden South, South Merton, Wimbledon Chase the connections are pretty easy to the Underground either at Morden or Wimbledon. Even Sutton Common it is a relatively short bus ride to Morden and in West Sutton's case it is also pretty near Sutton. The line is ideal for conversion to tram operation with a Morden diversion between South Merton and Morden South. The patronage figure are poor. Trains from Kingston, Raynes Park, Epsom etc could then be diverted via Tooting, Streatham and onto the Thameslink system. The tram has totally boosted the Wimbledon-West Croydon line and I'm sure similar could happen on this line. Martin Mizter T wrote: Mystery Flyer wrote: The line and timetable doesnt work in 3 ways. (snip) 2) Getting to Kings Cross Thameslink (the only time I use these trains now) from Wimbledon takes over an hour including lots of what seems to be 10mph chugging. Wimbledon to KX Thameslink is 44 minutes according to the timetable. Wimbledon - Vauxhall - KXSP via Victoria Line is quicker of course, though more of a hassle with heavy luggage. Obviously if you're coming from a station between Sutton and Wimbledon the Thameslink journey will take longer. I agree that there does seem to be considerable amount of "10mph chugging",as you put it, on this route. There train often wait at the platforms at Herne Hill and Blackfriars, and there's a general sense of sluggishness. 3) Its *very* hard to fathom out where the trains are going since they are timetabled 'Sutton' or not at all - they often don't show up on the Wimbledon destination boards at all even though they are on the online timetable. I think the trains are either described as Sutton via Wimbledon if they're going clockwise, or Wimbledon via Sutton if anti-clockwise (though perhaps the via point doesn't appear all the time). I've not had information problems at Wimbledon before, at least not with the indicator on the bi-directional Thameslink platform - it has correctly shown clockwise departures to Sutton, and anti-clockwise (i.e. via central London) departures to Luton/Bedford/St. Albans. |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
Was the line ever in Beeching plans for closure. The trouble with the line is that on many of the stations St Helier, Morden South, South Merton, Wimbledon Chase the connections are pretty easy to the Underground either at Morden or Wimbledon. Even Sutton Common it is a relatively short bus ride to Morden and in West Sutton's case it is also pretty near Sutton. The line is ideal for conversion to tram operation with a Morden diversion between South Merton and Morden South. The patronage figure are poor. Trains from Kingston, Raynes Park, Epsom etc could then be diverted via Tooting, Streatham and onto the Thameslink system. I doubt passengers from Kingston, Raynes Park, Epsom etc would like that. Wimbledon to Blackfriars takes twice as long as Wimbledon to Waterloo, and while Vauxhall and Waterloo have good interchange to the West End, the City and Docklands, the Thameslink line has poor interchange at Elephant &Castle and no interchange at all with the Jubilee or Central line. |
Morden to Sutton - still possible?
The line is ideal for conversion to tram operation with a Morden
diversion between South Merton and Morden South. I don't think that will be very popular at Wimbledon Chase, unless it is looped into Dundonald Road but that would miss out Wimbledon. Presently Wimbledon tram stop is a single platform in a very constrained site hiw many trains per hour could it support? The patronage figure are poor. Trains from Kingston, Raynes Park, Epsom etc could then be diverted via Tooting, Streatham and onto the Thameslink system. This would require flying junctions or diveunders to get from the Up Slow line to the Tooting connection - a huge capital cost. Also one reason the ELLX did not go to Wimbledon as paths were in short supply on the Tooting line so, all in all, not very feasible. OC |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 12:04 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2006 LondonBanter.co.uk