Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

wrote:

Looking at North Weald on http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/ I didnt
realise how rural the station was, I always thought Chesham and Amersham
were the most rural but seeing the pictures it was clearly not the case.

How is Chesham rural? It's just a few hundred metres from the town centre.

And Amersham doesn't feel very rural either - both towns are within easy
walking distance even if there are those lovely woods next to the line.


Which begs the question as to whether any LU station can be defined as
rural? I'm racking my brain but to be honest I can't think that any
station really fits the bill - well not these days at least!

"Mizter T" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

wrote:

Looking at North Weald on http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/ I didnt
realise how rural the station was, I always thought Chesham and
Amersham
were the most rural but seeing the pictures it was clearly not the
case.

How is Chesham rural? It's just a few hundred metres from the town
centre.

And Amersham doesn't feel very rural either - both towns are within easy
walking distance even if there are those lovely woods next to the line.


Which begs the question as to whether any LU station can be defined as
rural? I'm racking my brain but to be honest I can't think that any
station really fits the bill - well not these days at least!


Blake Hall was unique on LU in being too remote to have a mains electricity
supply. The station lighting was fed directly from the DC traction supply,
and the lights used to dim as the train accelerated away from Ongar.

Andrew

In article ,
(Andrew) wrote:

Blake Hall was unique on LU in being too remote to have a mains
electricity supply. The station lighting was fed directly from the
DC traction supply, and the lights used to dim as the train
accelerated away from Ongar.

Essex Road had that dubious feature too until BR took over. We saw the
lights dim as a train left when we reversed direction there on the
Underground Trip in 1970.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Andrew) wrote:

Blake Hall was unique on LU in being too remote to have a mains
electricity supply. The station lighting was fed directly from the
DC traction supply, and the lights used to dim as the train
accelerated away from Ongar.

Essex Road had that dubious feature too until BR took over. We saw the
lights dim as a train left when we reversed direction there on the
Underground Trip in 1970.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

wrote:

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Pretty much. Leaving aside ownership of the line, power supply issues, the
stock used and so forth, a key problem is that it's so far out and remote
that it would be reliant on a lot of Park and Go travellers, or those
brought in by buses. And you'd need very skewed fares and/or car parking
rates to make it economical for passengers to use North Weald and Ongar
rather than Epping or other stations.

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
wrote:

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Pretty much. Leaving aside ownership of the line, power supply issues, the
stock used and so forth, a key problem is that it's so far out and remote
that it would be reliant on a lot of Park and Go travellers, or those
brought in by buses. And you'd need very skewed fares and/or car parking
rates to make it economical for passengers to use North Weald and Ongar
rather than Epping or other stations.


Do you think there is a danger of Epping closing?

wrote:
From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Probably. As things stand at present, there are simply too many
obstacles:-

1) Cost - the track will probably require total renewal, new signalling
will be needed, and at least one new substation would need to be built.
All this, especially the signalling, is very expensive.

2) Layout - even if a passing loop were reinstated at North Weald the
line is going to have a very infrequent service, which is what killed
it in the first place. Likewise, through trains from London would
probably not be workable because of the risk of the long single-line
section transmitting delays to the entire line.

3) Trains - there aren't enough 92ts as it is, without anything between
one and three trains being needed for a reinstated Ongar service.

4) Capacity at Epping - with Epping now seeing a very high frequency of
trains, the station layout there would be a major headache.

5) Long way from London - Ken is interested in projects in the centre,
and normally for the benefit of deprived areas (ELLX, DLR to Stratford
Int). Serving Essex isn't going to be a priority.


IMO the only chance for the line serving Ongar again is if there is
ever a big scheme to develop the green space around Ongar or North
Weald. It's quite possible some developer might come up with the
"brainwave" of building houses with a ready-made Tube link (well,
almost), but there would probably be a *lot* of local opposition. If
this ever happens, I'd imagine most of the costs would be borne by
private financiers, and the line would get totally upgraded. Not
impossible, but hardly likely either.

In article ,
() wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Andrew) wrote:

Blake Hall was unique on LU in being too remote to have a mains
electricity supply. The station lighting was fed directly from
the DC traction supply, and the lights used to dim as the train
accelerated away from Ongar.

Essex Road had that dubious feature too until BR took over. We
saw the lights dim as a train left when we reversed direction there
on the Underground Trip in 1970.

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past
Epping again. Would other people agree?

I'm, not sure where _my_ comment comes into it but I tend to agree.
--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote:

wrote:
From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Probably. As things stand at present, there are simply too many
obstacles:-

(snip)

5) Long way from London - Ken is interested in projects in the centre,
and normally for the benefit of deprived areas (ELLX, DLR to Stratford
Int). Serving Essex isn't going to be a priority.


Bear in mind that the remit of the Mayor and TfL is Greater London as
opposed to Essex. Any plan to reopen Epping to Ongar as part of the
Central line would have to be proposed by Essex County Council, in
partnership with LU. The Croxley Rail Link project [1] in Watford,
which is outside Greater London in Hertfordshire, is similarly a
partnership between LU and Hertfordshire County Council, and will be
funded (in part at least) by the DfT (i.e. central government).

Anyway I'd suggest that Epping to Ongar ain't going to be part of the
Central line again. The original reasons for it closing, that of lack
of passengers, almost certainly still apply. Plus any plans to reopen
it would have to be backed by the DfT, and also paid for (in part at
least) by the DfT too. In the big scheme of things other projects are
far more worthy than a recently closed line - a line that was closed
because it never really drew the crowds needed to justify it's
existence.

-----
[1] http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/company/p...ley-rail-link/

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 wrote:

wrote:

From your comments I dont think I can ever see the line going past Epping
again. Would other people agree?

Probably. As things stand at present, there are simply too many
obstacles:-

2) Layout - even if a passing loop were reinstated at North Weald the
line is going to have a very infrequent service, which is what killed it
in the first place. Likewise, through trains from London would probably
not be workable because of the risk of the long single-line section
transmitting delays to the entire line.

Is there room to double-track it?

IMO the only chance for the line serving Ongar again is if there is ever
a big scheme to develop the green space around Ongar or North Weald.
It's quite possible some developer might come up with the "brainwave" of
building houses with a ready-made Tube link (well, almost), but there
would probably be a *lot* of local opposition.

Agreed. Barring the tearing up of the Green Belt in this area, the Ongar
branch is dead; but if it does happen, as seems just about plausible given
the rising demand for new homes in the southeast, the vision of extending
London to the east, and the growing power of central authorities (both Ken
and Number 10) to override local opposition, i would certainly expect the
branch to be central to the transport plan.

tom

--
solvilvitur ambulando. copy a diamond shape, recording angel. .. ..