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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Two press releases that have come my way:
Date: 23.01.07 Release: Immediate Photocall: 0800 24th January 2006 Junction of Uxbridge Road and Wood Lane Title: West London Tram Could Put Council Tax up £315 Campaigners against the West London Tram have warned that the project could leave Londoners with a bill of £315 for every household in the capital. The figures were revealed on the eve of a major Tram Summit, organised by the three councils affected, to rally opposition against the scheme. The summit will be held on Wednesday 24th January, at 7pm in Shepherd's Bush Library. This is the first time all three directly affected councils - Ealing, Hillingdon and Hammersmith & Fulham - have come together to discuss ways to fight the scheme. The councils fear that the Tram will cause gridlock in West London, whilst leaving taxpayers with a construction bill of £1bn. This is because new build trams, like the one in Sheffield, have never been able to recover their capital costs. The Tram is also unpopular; a survey conducted by Ipsos MORI on behalf of Transport for London showed a majority of residents opposed the scheme. 53% do not believe they would derive any benefit at all from the Tram. Cllr Stephen Greenhalgh, Leader of Hammersmith & Fulham Council, said, "This tram will cause misery for commuters by effectively closing down Uxbridge Road. It is unpopular with residents and is likely to leave taxpayers massively out of pocket. We welcome investment in public transport but this scheme will only bring gridlock to our already congested roads." /ENDS Notes to editors: PHOTO OPPORTUNITY: Representatives of all three councils will be available for photos and interviews at 08:00 24th January 2007 on the junction of Uxbridge Road and Wood Lane. They will be unveiling a banner entitled "West London Says No". 1. Transport for London's Survey in 2006 showed that 46% of residents opposed the West London Tram. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...tober-2006.pdf. Far less where in favour. 2. Ealing Council voted to oppose the Tram on 18th May 2006 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...ober-2006.pdf), Hillingdon voted to oppose the tram on 26th January 2006 (http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/central...il_26jan06.pdf) Hammersmith & Fulham Council leadership first announced their opposition on 10th May 2006. 3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost, this is divided by the total number of households in London (according the London Councils 2007 Local Government Directory) 3,171,664. Andre Walker Communications Officer Hammersmith & Fulham Council Town Hall King Street Hammersmith W6 9JU Date: 24.01.07 Release: Immediate Declaration of War Against the West London Tram All three boroughs along the proposed route of the West London Tram will come together today to hold a summit declaring war on the scheme. The councils fear that the tram - estimated to cost £1bn - will displace traffic onto residential streets, choking West London. From the outset the Tram has been unpopular within its catchment area; a survey conducted by Ipsos MORI on behalf of Transport for London showed a majority of residents opposed the scheme. Whilst 53% do not believe they would derive any benefit at all from it. However, this is the first time that all three councils have met since they all formally came out against the scheme, a process which has gradually taken place over the last 12 months. The West London Tram could cost up to £1bn, equivalent to £315 for every household in the capital. Money that the councils say could be better spent. The Summit will take place at 7pm in Shepard's Bush Library (24th January 2007). Cllr Stephen Greenhalgh, Leader of Hammersmith & Fulham Council, said, " The tram is far too costly and the Uxbridge Road is far too narrow for this scheme to make any sense. Think about what could be achieved with £1bn: more police, better public services or a reduction is council tax: isn't it a waste to throw all this money away on one white elephant transport scheme. Residents, councillors and road users are all coming together to fight the Tram, we think its time that Ken Livingstone took notice." /ENDS Notes to editors: 1. Transport for London ' s Survey in 2006 showed that 46% of residents opposed the West London Tram. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...tober-2006.pdf. Far less were in favour. 2. Ealing Council voted to oppose the Tram on 18th May 2006 (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...ober-2006.pdf), Hillingdon voted to oppose the tram on 26th January 2006 (http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/central...il_26jan06.pdf) Hammersmith & Fulham Council leadership first announced their opposition in October 2005. 3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost, this is divided by the total number of households in London (according the London Councils 2007 Local Government Directory) 3,171,664. Andre Walker Communications Officer Hammersmith & Fulham Council Town Hall King Street Hammersmith W6 9JU |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all
Conservative controlled. Obviously there's been NO co-ordination there, and NO scaremongering by Conservative politicians scrambling for votes. I certainly don't remember Croydon, Bromley's and Merton's Council Tax increasing exponentially to pay for the Tramlink. But, hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh ? |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 24 Jan, 12:13, wrote: Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. Obviously there's been NO co-ordination there, and NO scaremongering by Conservative politicians scrambling for votes. I certainly don't remember Croydon, Bromley's and Merton's Council Tax increasing exponentially to pay for the Tramlink. But, hey, why let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh ? Exactly. And there hasn't been anything like this sort of NIMBYism with the Camden-Peckham route. Indeed, even in Peckham, the people most affected by it (those who will lose their business/studio space due to the construction of a depot) are still in favour of the project as a whole. Patrick |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 wrote:
Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. And why? Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted out because they supported the tram. -- Thoss |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 24 Jan, 12:14, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: The Tram is also unpopular; a survey conducted by Ipsos MORI on behalf of Transport for London showed a majority of residents opposed the scheme. 53% do not believe they would derive any benefit at all from the Tram. So in other words 47% (almost half the people surveyed) believe they will. That to me sounds a lot higher than for most public transport schemes. But presumably if you're being so black and white about it , if it suddenly changed to 51% you'd be all for it would you? Cllr Stephen Greenhalgh, Leader of Hammersmith & Fulham Council, said, "This tram will cause misery for commuters by effectively closing down Uxbridge Road. It is unpopular with residents and is likely to leave Umm , am I missing something or isn't the tram FOR commuters? Why would they all still need to be driving once its built? Uxbridge Road and Wood Lane. They will be unveiling a banner entitled "West London Says No". Should that read "53% of west london say they're not sure". 3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost, this is Amazing what numbers you can come up with if you pick a few at random and multiply them. Where exactly is the cost breakdown for this huge sum please? Declaration of War Against the West London Tram Who thought that slogan up , some from ealing college student union? B2003 |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 24 Jan, 15:11, "Boltar" wrote: Umm , am I missing something or isn't the tram FOR commuters? Why would they all still need to be driving once its built? Because maybe they don't want to go exactly where the tram is going? How exactly will the tram route affect cyclists, by the way? |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:00:41 +0000, thoss
wrote: On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 wrote: Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. And why? Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted out because they supported the tram. Though I was amused to see a poster in a house here (Ealing, Northfields ward) with two posters: one saying "Vote NO Tram" and one saying "Vote Labour". |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:43:30 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: wrote: Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. Obviously there's been NO co-ordination there, and NO scaremongering by Conservative politicians scrambling for votes. Most if not all of the three councils were won on a platform that includes opposing the tram - this is a case of politicians fulfilling their promises! Treasure it while it lasts, it'll be a long time till the next one! :-) |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:14:16 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Date: 23.01.07 Release: Immediate Title: West London Tram Could Put Council Tax up £315 This is the first I've heard of the Tram being funded by a Council Tax increase. Won't it just be paid for out of existing transport budgets? The Tram is also unpopular; a survey conducted by Ipsos MORI on behalf of Transport for London showed a majority of residents opposed the scheme. 53% do not believe they would derive any benefit at all from the Tram. Just because you don't derive any benefit from something doesn't mean you're opposed to it. I don't receive any personal benefit from the public funding of most of the bus routes in London (or of ScotRail, or disability benefit), but that doesn't mean I'm opposed to them. "This tram will cause misery for commuters by effectively closing down Uxbridge Road. Only if "effectively closing down" means the same as "keeping open to buses, trams, cycles, pedestrians, and emergency vehicles throughout, and closing to cars only at one point, while increasing the capacity of the road by widening pinch points". And why would commuters be miserable that their journey by Tram is faster than was previously ever possible (by bus or car)? Notes to editors: 1. Transport for London's Survey in 2006 showed that 46% of residents opposed the West London Tram. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...tober-2006.pdf. Why do they point this out? It appears to be the same survey they referred to above, and therefore contradicts what they claimed! 3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost, What method did they use to come up with this estimate? This is more than double the official estimate for the cost (£463m). The budgeted cost, which includes a 40% risk premium, is £648m. The main anti-tram website, Save Ealing's Streets, doesn't dispute the official figure. Given that they don't say, and the co-incidence that it's such a round figure, unless further clarification arrives I can only assume that they used the pull-a-figure-out-of-your-arse-to-make-a-nice-headline method. Date: 24.01.07 Release: Immediate Declaration of War Against the West London Tram Think about what could be achieved with £1bn: more police, better public services or a reduction is council tax: isn't it a waste to throw all this money away on one white elephant transport scheme. Right. So while the previous press release claimed that the Tram would be entirely funded by a big Council Tax increase, this one (from the same people) suggests that binning the project will leave a £1bn surplus kicking around, which would be freely available to spend on other public services or to give a reduction in Council Tax. They're not doing their credibility any favours here. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:00:41 +0000, thoss wrote:
Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. And why? Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted out because they supported the tram. There was an overall national swing from Labour to Conservative. Is there data to suggest that this particular change of control only took place due to Labour voters changing their vote over the tram issue? |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:00:41 +0000, thoss wrote: Ah well, there's a surprise. The 3 councils concerned are all Conservative controlled. And why? Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted out because they supported the tram. There was an overall national swing from Labour to Conservative. Is there data to suggest that this particular change of control only took place due to Labour voters changing their vote over the tram issue? I'm sure it was a major factor. The swing from Labour to Conservative was 4% in London as a whole, but 10% in Ealing. The new council voted *unanimously* to oppose the tram, with the remaining Labour councillors effectively admitting that their previous policy of supporting the tram was wrong. The Labour deputy leader on the council was reported as saying "This [the tram] is something which has been very unpopular and we accept that it has been a major factor in our defeat. The public have decided this for all of us and we need to move on." -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 25 Jan, 11:27, "Richard J." wrote: The Labour deputy leader on the council was reported as saying "This [the tram] is something which has been very unpopular and we accept that it has been a major factor in our defeat. The public have decided this for all of us and we need to move on." This leads on to the interesting question - why do people in Ealing not want the tram, whereas people in Peckham are quite keen on it? Is it: a. Ealing has three tube stations plus two National Rail stations, and feels that is adequate b. Ealing residents are more likely to have cars than Peckham residents, so the idea of road restrictions has more resonance for them c. Peckham currently only has a couple of National Rail stations, so its residents are looking forward to better services d. The car lobby is more vocal in Ealing, and really there are no differences in levels of support between Ealing & Peckham or something else entirely? Patrick |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 wrote:
On 25 Jan, 11:27, "Richard J." wrote: The Labour deputy leader on the council was reported as saying "This [the tram] is something which has been very unpopular and we accept that it has been a major factor in our defeat. The public have decided this for all of us and we need to move on." This leads on to the interesting question - why do people in Ealing not want the tram, whereas people in Peckham are quite keen on it? Is it: a. Ealing has three tube stations plus two National Rail stations, and feels that is adequate b. Ealing residents are more likely to have cars than Peckham residents, so the idea of road restrictions has more resonance for them c. Peckham currently only has a couple of National Rail stations, so its residents are looking forward to better services d. The car lobby is more vocal in Ealing, and really there are no differences in levels of support between Ealing & Peckham or something else entirely? Yes, something else. I'd love a tram, but the Uxbridge Road is quite unsuitable for one. -- Thoss |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
martyn dawe wrote:
The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ? You mean like Croydon? |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
thoss wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 wrote: On 25 Jan, 11:27, "Richard J." wrote: The Labour deputy leader on the council was reported as saying "This [the tram] is something which has been very unpopular and we accept that it has been a major factor in our defeat. The public have decided this for all of us and we need to move on." This leads on to the interesting question - why do people in Ealing not want the tram, whereas people in Peckham are quite keen on it? Is it: a. Ealing has three tube stations plus two National Rail stations, and feels that is adequate b. Ealing residents are more likely to have cars than Peckham residents, so the idea of road restrictions has more resonance for them c. Peckham currently only has a couple of National Rail stations, so its residents are looking forward to better services d. The car lobby is more vocal in Ealing, and really there are no differences in levels of support between Ealing & Peckham or something else entirely? Yes, something else. I'd love a tram, but the Uxbridge Road is quite unsuitable for one. I think this is a bit of a misnomer. It is true that the Uxbridge Road is narrow in many places and so there is a lot of competition for road space between motorists, cyclists, pedestrians and bus users. However, any high capacity, high quality street public transport service along this route is going to need more roadspace than is used now for the conventional bus routes - otherwise it will be impossible to maintain effective headways, and difficult to encourage some of the car users to switch modes. As far as I can see, there are only two ways to go with the Uxbridge Road. Either more roadspace is taken away from private vehicles for public transport (whether that is a tram or something else), or road charging is introduced along it so that a very high articulated bus frequency can operate. However, there is a limit to the capacity you can get from such a bus service without more infrastructure (at very high frequencies, buses will need to be able to overtake each other easily). Longer vehicles will be needed (longer than the current bendy buses) - and that brings us right back to trams or tram-like technology (e.g. optically-guided multi-articulated buses). As for why Ealing doesn't want the tram but Peckham does, I would combine higher car ownership and usage and a different attitude to roadspace - oddly, much of the Cross River Tram route has more roadspace available to it than does the West London Tram route, so battles over roadspace are more hotly contested on the latter. I would say Inner London residents are also much more used to the need to allocate roadspace to public transport. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
asdf wrote:
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:14:16 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Date: 23.01.07 Release: Immediate Title: West London Tram Could Put Council Tax up £315 This is the first I've heard of the Tram being funded by a Council Tax increase. Won't it just be paid for out of existing transport budgets? Quite - it's just a headline-grabbing figure. AIUI, funding for WLT would probably need to be negotiated with central government as part of the next investment plan, which, as now, will involve a combination of TfL revenues, central government grant, Mayor's precept and borrowing secured against future revenues. It could also potentially involve other funds like TIF (Transport Innovation Fund), which would be connected to other travel demand management projects. The article assumes that the entire scheme would be funded out of the Mayor's precept, which is not true. (snip) Notes to editors: 1. Transport for London's Survey in 2006 showed that 46% of residents opposed the West London Tram. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/trams/download...tober-2006.pdf. Why do they point this out? It appears to be the same survey they referred to above, and therefore contradicts what they claimed! The poll and consultation figures are constantly tossed around from side to side in the WLT debate, and have all become fairly meaningless - the only real conclusion one can draw is that opinion is quite evenly mixed. One could also conclude that the opponents are much more vocal than the supporters. Until recently, the media consistently accused TfL and the Mayor of manipulating the support figures for the tram - because the majority of respondents to the public consultation opposed the tram, but an independent poll showed a much more mixed opinion. The poll was a much more reliable method of gauging public opinion (people opposed to something are always more likely to voice their opinion than those who support it - look at Cross River Tram where polls put support in the nineties but media coverage is still focused on opposition issues). 3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost, What method did they use to come up with this estimate? This is more than double the official estimate for the cost (£463m). The budgeted cost, which includes a 40% risk premium, is £648m. The main anti-tram website, Save Ealing's Streets, doesn't dispute the official figure. Given that they don't say, and the co-incidence that it's such a round figure, unless further clarification arrives I can only assume that they used the pull-a-figure-out-of-your-arse-to-make-a-nice-headline method. I'm sure they did. They may have a point because these costs tend to inflate anyway, but I'd be very sceptical of this figure until I saw some supporting calculations (e.g. a comparison with cost overruns for other UK light rail schemes). Date: 24.01.07 Release: Immediate Declaration of War Against the West London Tram Think about what could be achieved with £1bn: more police, better public services or a reduction is council tax: isn't it a waste to throw all this money away on one white elephant transport scheme. Right. So while the previous press release claimed that the Tram would be entirely funded by a big Council Tax increase, this one (from the same people) suggests that binning the project will leave a £1bn surplus kicking around, which would be freely available to spend on other public services or to give a reduction in Council Tax. They're not doing their credibility any favours here. You're right about the "money kicking around". Since a significant proportion of the scheme cost could come from central government, the likelihood would be that the "spare" money would be spent elsewhere in the country. Such money would probably be in the DfT's budget, so it would never get spent on tax reductions, police or any public services other than transport. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
James Farrar wrote:
Most if not all of the three councils were won on a platform that includes opposing the tram - this is a case of politicians fulfilling their promises! Treasure it while it lasts, it'll be a long time till the next one! :-) Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and they did. http://timrollpickering.blogspot.com...-i-wish-i.html |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:53:20 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: James Farrar wrote: Most if not all of the three councils were won on a platform that includes opposing the tram - this is a case of politicians fulfilling their promises! Treasure it while it lasts, it'll be a long time till the next one! :-) Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and they did. And we'll see how that affects their funding from central Government next time round... |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
In message , Tim Roll-Pickering
writes martyn dawe wrote: The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ? You mean like Croydon? Yes |I know , but most Brits have never seem a modern tram system, there the Brit Nimbly effect , don't people think the planners have thought it out ? -- martyn dawe |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Because last year the two Labour-controlled councils were voted
out because they supported the tram. I think it MIGHT have had something to do with other issues, tbh. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
:-)Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and
they did. Council meets manifesto commitment shocka ! |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
3. The £315 figure is based on a £1bn estimate for the build cost
The Croydon Tramlink cost a fortune and the Council Tax in Croydon/Merton/Bromley did not increase by 30% - why do you think it will now ? Face facts, the only reason that the 3 Councils oppose it, is because Labour support it, and Labour Councils proposed it. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
However, there is a limit to the capacity you can get from such a bus
service without more infrastructure (at very high frequencies, buses will need to be able to overtake each other easily). Longer vehicles will be needed (longer than the current bendy buses) - and that brings us right back to trams or tram-like technology (e.g. optically-guided multi-articulated buses). As a daily user of the 207 or 607 route, I am obviously supportive of the tram. However I have been surprised, when talking to people, about the strength of local opposition. Moreover, the more I use the route, the more I feel that some quite cheap measures (a few more bus lanes, some prioritisation at lights, better management of the driving schedules) could be put in place within 12 months to really speed up the bus routes on the Uxbridge Road. I would suggest that the project should be put on hold for 18 months while some other measures are tried. I have read again and again about the impossibility of putting more buses on this route and I simply do not believe it to be true. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: martyn dawe wrote: The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon? Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the North Circular. In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia, Netherlands and Germany. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
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Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
alexterrell wrote:
On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: martyn dawe wrote: The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon? Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the North Circular. In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia, Netherlands and Germany. Which town planners are you levelling this at? It's the (borough) politicians who are opposed to the tram; the (borough) planners are probably the same ones as when the tram was originally proposed. I also know that quite a number of borough planners have seen what has been done with bikes in the Netherlands and Germany! -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
whos2091 wrote:
However, there is a limit to the capacity you can get from such a bus service without more infrastructure (at very high frequencies, buses will need to be able to overtake each other easily). Longer vehicles will be needed (longer than the current bendy buses) - and that brings us right back to trams or tram-like technology (e.g. optically-guided multi-articulated buses). As a daily user of the 207 or 607 route, I am obviously supportive of the tram. However I have been surprised, when talking to people, about the strength of local opposition. Moreover, the more I use the route, the more I feel that some quite cheap measures (a few more bus lanes, some prioritisation at lights, better management of the driving schedules) could be put in place within 12 months to really speed up the bus routes on the Uxbridge Road. I would suggest that the project should be put on hold for 18 months while some other measures are tried. I have read again and again about the impossibility of putting more buses on this route and I simply do not believe it to be true. Perhaps not now; the whole point is to cater for future growth in both car and public transport traffic. There are some extremely large developments coming in Southall (gas works) and Shepherd's Bush (White City), bringing both residential and employment growth along the corridor. Whilst further bus priority measures might improve capacity now, there is a practical limit to how frequently you can run buses along this route. I suspect buses are *already* prioritised at some lights along this route as part of the SCOOT traffic control system - however, users often don't notice the prioritisation because it works by juggling green time for each arm at the junction, rather than by always letting approaching buses through without considering the queues building up on the other arms of the junction. An ultra-high bus frequency - to meet the demand predicted on this corridor in 10-20 years' time - would need much more forceful signal prioritisation to prevent excessive bunching-up of buses. In turn, that prioritisation will cause big queues to build up on roads joining or crossing the Uxbridge Road - which in turn will impact upon other bus services in the area. This is the same problem magnified for Cross River Tram. Bus-based proposals for Cross River were ruled out because the higher frequency required to deliver the same service was impossible to get across major east-west routes in central London (Holborn for buses, Euston Road for cars). I recall seeing mention of 60-80 buses per hour needed to meet the demand, compared to 30-40 trams per hour. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:53:20 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: James Farrar wrote: Most if not all of the three councils were won on a platform that includes opposing the tram - this is a case of politicians fulfilling their promises! Treasure it while it lasts, it'll be a long time till the next one! :-) Hammersmith & Fulham Conservatives also pledged to cut Council Tax - and they did. And we'll see how that affects their funding from central Government next time round... It does help the council tax situation when central government gives a more generous grant to the council than usual. Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Dave A wrote:
Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Dave A wrote: Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday. -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On 26 Jan, 20:17, Dave A wrote: alexterrellwrote: On 25 Jan, 21:07, "Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote: martyn dawe wrote: The trouble with the English, is that they all think of trams as something out a 50s film, They don't go to places which have modern tram systems ?You mean like Croydon? Why would someone from Ealing go to Croydon? The have an IKEA on the North Circular. In general, lack of perspective seems to be a problem with the town planners. They probably go on holiday to Spain or Florida, and miss out seeing what has been done with trams and bikes in Scandinavia, Netherlands and Germany. Which town planners are you levelling this at? It's the (borough) politicians who are opposed to the tram; the (borough) planners are probably the same ones as when the tram was originally proposed. I also know that quite a number of borough planners have seen what has been done with bikes in the Netherlands and Germany! -- To be honest, I can't speak for Ealing. In my part of Kent, regarding cycle routes, the county council seems to be fairly forward thinking, whilst the local town council seems to believe that only cars vote, and have a policy towards cyclists not far off from shoot to kill. I remember when the BBC took a town planner to Gronigen and he seemed to think he was on another planet. Its good to hear some of them are seeing the Netherlands and Germany. The most innovative thinking on transport policy comes out of Northern Europe, which is not where Brits, including town planners, go on holiday. I suppose if the town planners go for a work visit to the Netherlands, the newspapers will accuse them of going on a jolly. Personally, I used to live in an area near the tram route. I'd be inclined to be in favour having been impressed with tram systems in German cities. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Dave A wrote:
Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday. I never get it. And it's not deposited at either of my local train stations. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Dave A wrote: Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday. At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box. |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
In message , James Farrar
writes On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote: Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Dave A wrote: Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday. At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box. Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar) Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently. weird.} -- Paul G Typing from Barking |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
Paul G wrote:
In message , James Farrar writes On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:43:30 +0000, Dave A wrote: Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Dave A wrote: Personally, I find it irritating that I get sent a glossy self-promotional magazine from the Conservative council every month when the Conservative assembly members are the first to jump on the Mayor for doing exactly the same thing... I never get a magazine from the Mayor! Haven't you seen "The Londoner"? It gets delivered to my house, and deposited in my Tube station once a month on a Saturday. At mine, it goes directly from the doormat to the green box. Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar) Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently. weird.} http://www.london.gov.uk/londoner/subscribe.jsp (Not saying that you should get it, just pointing out what they say about door drops!) -- Dave Arquati www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London |
Opposition to the West London Tram steps up
On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 Dave A wrote:
Once a month?! I though it was a 6th monthly publication :O (or similar) Maybe the distributors daren't travel this far out? {ok, can't actually think of a *decent* reason why I get the publication so infrequently. weird.} http://www.london.gov.uk/londoner/subscribe.jsp (Not saying that you should get it, just pointing out what they say about door drops!) Door drops here (Ealing) are, to put it politely, intermittent. The same used to be the case for free newspapers, but now they've stopped coming altogether. -- Thoss |
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