Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

Bond Street isn't that bad at all, I think. Bank sure is.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:20:50 GMT, Olof Lagerkvist
wrote:

Not related to this thread but looking at that diagram the escalators
and walkways between Northern Line or DLR up to the Monument station
look surprisingly short in proportion to other parts of the diagram IMO.

The Northern line platforms (one end of them, anyway!) are really
quite close (in two dimensions) to the D&C platforms. When I commuted
from Streatham Common to Stepney Green I changed at Balham and
Bank/Monument.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

MIG wrote:

On Jan 28, 7:20 pm, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
I suggest Bond Street too. Don't think anyone would suggest Bank in this
case. There is a diagram of the Bank/Monument station complex he
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.b...aps/ltmonu.jpg
The diagram gives an indication about which of the changes are worst
within the complex.

Not related to this thread but looking at that diagram the escalators
and walkways between Northern Line or DLR up to the Monument station
look surprisingly short in proportion to other parts of the diagram IMO.
It might be that it is not easy to get the proportions look right on
such a diagram... (or it might be that my feeling of my Circle-DLR
interchange experience is worse than the change actually is...)



Neither interchange is very easy, but the important thing about Bank
is that you have to know the way and ignore all signs. This is
obviously not easy if you are not familiar with it.

The way to get from the DLR to the Central is to head up the first big
escalator as directed (towards the front of the arriving DLR), but to
ignore the second escalator and turn right as if to the Northern Line,
after which you will find the direct passageway from the Northern to
the Central which, unlike following the original signs, doesn't take
you over the Central and down again.


Is that the route up the spiral staircase between the Northern and
Central lines? If so, it's unfortunately not shown on the
illustration.

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

On Jan 29, 12:36 am, "Mizter T" wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:20 pm, Olof Lagerkvist wrote:
I suggest Bond Street too. Don't think anyone would suggest Bank in this
case. There is a diagram of the Bank/Monument station complex he
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clive.b...aps/ltmonu.jpg
The diagram gives an indication about which of the changes are worst
within the complex.

Not related to this thread but looking at that diagram the escalators
and walkways between Northern Line or DLR up to the Monument station
look surprisingly short in proportion to other parts of the diagram IMO.
It might be that it is not easy to get the proportions look right on
such a diagram... (or it might be that my feeling of my Circle-DLR
interchange experience is worse than the change actually is...)

Neither interchange is very easy, but the important thing about Bank
is that you have to know the way and ignore all signs. This is
obviously not easy if you are not familiar with it.

The way to get from the DLR to the Central is to head up the first big
escalator as directed (towards the front of the arriving DLR), but to
ignore the second escalator and turn right as if to the Northern Line,
after which you will find the direct passageway from the Northern to
the Central which, unlike following the original signs, doesn't take
you over the Central and down again.Is that the route up the spiral staircase between the Northern and
Central lines? If so, it's unfortunately not shown on the
illustration.

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).


Yes, it would be the spiral staircase.

I should mention that my suggested route doesn't involve going the
wrong way down any passages; just following a sign to a different line
from the one you are trying to reach.

The situation is even worse if you are going the other way. To get to
the DLR from the Central, bearing in mind that the DLR is two levels
below, you are directed to start by climbing upstairs to get over one
of the Central platforms. I know they want to separate people out, but
I think it's asking a bit much to make people do that.

I would always head downwards towards the Northern and then cut
across. It's never particularly crowded.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

On 28 Jan 2007 16:36:41 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).

Notting Hill Gate, Central to District/Circle: even off-peak, the
switchable signs often send you up the escalator to the ticket hall,
then down the stairs from there. Instead of turning right up the
escalator, it's quicker to go straight ahead and take the direct
passage to the D/C platforms.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

In message .com of
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:27:41 in uk.transport.london, MIG
writes

[snip]

The way to get from the DLR to the Central is to head up the first big
escalator as directed (towards the front of the arriving DLR), but to
ignore the second escalator and turn right as if to the Northern Line,
after which you will find the direct passageway from the Northern to
the Central which, unlike following the original signs, doesn't take
you over the Central and down again.Is that the route up the spiral
staircase between the Northern and
Central lines? If so, it's unfortunately not shown on the
illustration.

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).


Yes, it would be the spiral staircase.

I should mention that my suggested route doesn't involve going the
wrong way down any passages; just following a sign to a different line
from the one you are trying to reach.

The situation is even worse if you are going the other way. To get to
the DLR from the Central, bearing in mind that the DLR is two levels
below, you are directed to start by climbing upstairs to get over one
of the Central platforms. I know they want to separate people out, but
I think it's asking a bit much to make people do that.

I would always head downwards towards the Northern and then cut
across. It's never particularly crowded.


Have you tried feedback to LU/TFL on the extended route?


I feedback to them regularly with a little success.

A couple of weeks ago, I reported a step free route at Kings Cross
between the Circle, Hammersmith & City, and Metropolitan platforms - all
2 of them - and the street which is not shown on the Circle and H&C line
diagrams. I omitted to check the Metropolitan line diagrams. Curiously,
I later found it IS shown on the latest network diagrams.

Customer Services said they passed my email to their Accessibility and
Inclusion Manager from whom I have yet to hear. It is odd that paper
change should lag behind reality.
--
Walter Briscoe

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

On 29 Jan, 09:27, Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message .com of
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:27:41 in uk.transport.london, MIG
writes

[snip]



The way to get from the DLR to the Central is to head up the first big
escalator as directed (towards the front of the arriving DLR), but to
ignore the second escalator and turn right as if to the Northern Line,
after which you will find the direct passageway from the Northern to
the Central which, unlike following the original signs, doesn't take
you over the Central and down again.Is that the route up the spiral
staircase between the Northern and
Central lines? If so, it's unfortunately not shown on the
illustration.

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).

Yes, it would be the spiral staircase.

I should mention that my suggested route doesn't involve going the
wrong way down any passages; just following a sign to a different line
from the one you are trying to reach.

The situation is even worse if you are going the other way. To get to
the DLR from the Central, bearing in mind that the DLR is two levels
below, you are directed to start by climbing upstairs to get over one
of the Central platforms. I know they want to separate people out, but
I think it's asking a bit much to make people do that.

I would always head downwards towards the Northern and then cut
across. It's never particularly crowded.

Have you tried feedback to LU/TFL on the extended route?


I guess that given the somewhat cramped nature of the spiral staircase
route LU prefers to direct people along a more spacious route instead.
I think that's fair enough.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).


Yep, I go both ways home depending on how I'm feeling and what's working
or not. The secret to the Bank interchange is indeed to follow the
Northern line route and then dive off.
At Bond Street you need to find the passageway on the right hand side of
the Central Line escalators as you go down. It's not currently signed as
an *entrance* to the Central line and at the platform is not signed as
an exit either (except for emergency purposes). So practically nobody
uses this passageway and you can get ahead of quite a few fellow
commuters. Sneaky huh?
Mark.

Opnion needed - Changing lines
 

On Jan 29, 1:22 pm, "Mizter T" wrote:
On 29 Jan, 09:27, Walter Briscoe wrote:





In message .com of
Sun, 28 Jan 2007 23:27:41 in uk.transport.london, MIG
writes

[snip]

The way to get from the DLR to the Central is to head up the first big
escalator as directed (towards the front of the arriving DLR), but to
ignore the second escalator and turn right as if to the Northern Line,
after which you will find the direct passageway from the Northern to
the Central which, unlike following the original signs, doesn't take
you over the Central and down again.Is that the route up the spiral
staircase between the Northern and
Central lines? If so, it's unfortunately not shown on the
illustration.

So it seems that at both Green Park and at Bank not following the
signed instructions is the way to go! There's obviously a number of
routes between lines at interchanges, but I'm just trying to think if
any of them are as essential as these two for the savvy subterranean
traveller. (In general I reckon it's a bit out of order to go the
wrong way down a one way tunnel, but that said when you're in a rush
to get the last train I think one can be forgiven for abandoning such
niceties).

Yes, it would be the spiral staircase.

I should mention that my suggested route doesn't involve going the
wrong way down any passages; just following a sign to a different line
from the one you are trying to reach.

The situation is even worse if you are going the other way. To get to
the DLR from the Central, bearing in mind that the DLR is two levels
below, you are directed to start by climbing upstairs to get over one
of the Central platforms. I know they want to separate people out, but
I think it's asking a bit much to make people do that.

I would always head downwards towards the Northern and then cut
across. It's never particularly crowded.

Have you tried feedback to LU/TFL on the extended route?I guess that given the somewhat cramped nature of the spiral staircase
route LU prefers to direct people along a more spacious route instead.
I think that's fair enough.



I think the problem is that they have to provide an alternative route,
so that they can thereby claim to have increased the capacity for the
passageways with the building of the DLR. The fact that no one would
use the new route it if they knew how far it took them out of their
way doesn't seem to figure. They've created a route, albeit a
ludicrous one, and therefore fulfilled the requirement.

I can't be quite sure how the whole thing works in 3D, but I can't see
why they didn't build a staircase down from the Central instead of up,
and then a passageway parallel with the one to the Northern along the
same horizontal route as the current top escalator, leading towards
the existing bottom escalator to the DLR, which is fine.

The long top escalator avoids no stairs. It just goes twice as far
vertically as it needs to, creating the need for another staircase in
the opposite direction, the same height as the one that could have
been in place of the whole thing.