In article , Phil Richards
writes

On the subject of the tube, the "In this hot weather" posters mention
that "long term solutions are being looked in to. I know the engineers
all seem to respond with the usual "Oh no, we can't possible do that"
statement as soon as the subject of air conditioning on the tube is
uttered, but perhaps LUL can up date us on what these "long term
solutions" exactly are.

The tube has 2 issues when it come to air con.

1. The stations

2. The trains

Many of the stations are deep underground and you have to disperse the
heat and moisture somewhere. That could mean running literally miles of
pipes from the a/c units to street level or the nearest vent. Large
volumes of air being forced through the tunnels by the trains makes this
even more difficult as the air shifts around a lot. My solution would be
to put a large number of moderate size ac units above head height on the
platforms and have them running 24/7 in this hot weather. Whilst it
would not totally cool the platforms it would help. However there are a
number of drawbacks to this including increasing the fire spread due to
the air currents and the space these units would take up (not every
station would be suitable I expect). You then have to get rid of the
heat and moisture taken from the air and that means pipe work or drains
or vents and probably all 3!

On trains you have to site the units somewhere. On stock on the Picc and
Northern etc it may be difficult to fins the space - possibly easier on
the Met style stock where there is more space. However, as with the
stations what do you do with the heat and moisture to disperse it? On
open sections of track it wouldn't be a problem, in tunnels it would!

Tracking to busses, putting ac on a bus is relatively simple as they are
in the open for heat dispersion. Busses in both Hong Kong and Singapore
have ac units on the rear or the roof.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

in article , Robin Mayes at
wrote on 7/8/03 8:27 AM:

Interesting story in the media about temperatures on public transport on
Wednesday 'the hottest day (so far)'. It appears the tube is actually cooler
than mainline trains (except those lovely C2C trains) or the top of a
double-decker bus, which was hottest.

Perhaps people should be complaining more about getting air-conditioning for
buses, where the extra space could be found, rather than moaning about how
hot the tube is?


High temperatures on overground transport is more tolerable because there is
a greater flow of air. Half the discomfort of the Tube is the dusty, dirty,
still air, which makes the high temperatures doubly unpleasant.

Andrew P Smith wrote:
In article , Phil Richards
writes

On the subject of the tube, the "In this hot weather" posters mention
that "long term solutions are being looked in to. I know the
engineers all seem to respond with the usual "Oh no, we can't
possible do that" statement as soon as the subject of air
conditioning on the tube is uttered, but perhaps LUL can up date us
on what these "long term solutions" exactly are.

The tube has 2 issues when it come to air con.

1. The stations

2. The trains
snip

On trains you have to site the units somewhere. On stock on the Picc
and Northern etc it may be difficult to fins the space - possibly
easier on the Met style stock where there is more space. However, as
with the stations what do you do with the heat and moisture to
disperse it? On open sections of track it wouldn't be a problem, in
tunnels it would!

The Singapore Metro has air-conditioned trains and stations. Do you know how
the heat and moisture from the trains is handled? Is it just dumped in the
stations for the station aircon to deal with?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In article , Richard J.
writes
Andrew P Smith wrote:
In article , Phil Richards
writes

On the subject of the tube, the "In this hot weather" posters mention
that "long term solutions are being looked in to. I know the
engineers all seem to respond with the usual "Oh no, we can't
possible do that" statement as soon as the subject of air
conditioning on the tube is uttered, but perhaps LUL can up date us
on what these "long term solutions" exactly are.

The tube has 2 issues when it come to air con.

1. The stations

2. The trains
snip

On trains you have to site the units somewhere. On stock on the Picc
and Northern etc it may be difficult to fins the space - possibly
easier on the Met style stock where there is more space. However, as
with the stations what do you do with the heat and moisture to
disperse it? On open sections of track it wouldn't be a problem, in
tunnels it would!

The Singapore Metro has air-conditioned trains and stations. Do you know how
the heat and moisture from the trains is handled? Is it just dumped in the
stations for the station aircon to deal with?

I imagine they designed the system with ac in mind. When the underground
was built, it was never considered and may not have even existed then!

In New York City, the trains have ac and they dump the heat into the
tunnels which are well vented.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

Andrew P Smith writes
In New York City, the trains have ac and they dump the heat into the
tunnels which are well vented.

Not only are the tunnels much bigger than the tube but they are also
much shallower - so that the many gratings in the roadway can be used to
vent hot air.

--
Dave

Terry Harper writes
My complaint about most modern double deck buses is not so much lack of
air conditioning, but larger windows with very little ventilation.
Effectively they are greenhouses on wheels...

The problem never existed when they had half-drop windows at the front
of the top deck.

Even Routemasters don't have those. You'll have to go all the way back
to the RT bus (a pre-WWII design) to get half-drop windows at the front
of the top-deck.

--
Dave

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 18:43:28 +0100, CJG
wrote:

In message , Robin Mayes
writes
It appears the tube is actually cooler than mainline trains

I think thousands of people would disagree with that.

Clearly that doesn't include the people I work with, most of whom have
remarked that the deep Tube lines at least are noticably cooler
compared to the wave of heat that hits you when you exit.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:26:58 +0100 Dave wrote:
}
} There were quiet a few stories regarding this in the press during the
} last hot period we had this summer.
}
} "London Mayor Ken Livingstone has offered a GBP100,000 reward for anyone
} who can invent an air conditioning system for the Tube"
} http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/l...ONTRANSPORTHea
} ttu11tubeairc

"the page you have requested is currently unavailable. Please try again."

Anyway it seems daft. Air cooling the tube (trains and all) doesn't
need "inventing", it needs "paying for".

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Dave wrote:
Terry Harper writes
The problem never existed when they had half-drop windows at the front
of the top deck.

Even Routemasters don't have those. You'll have to go all the way back
to the RT bus (a pre-WWII design) to get half-drop windows at the front
of the top-deck.

And what'swrong with that?

Do RM drivers' windscreens still open?

Colin McKenzie

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Terry Harper writes
My complaint about most modern double deck buses is not so much lack of
air conditioning, but larger windows with very little ventilation.
Effectively they are greenhouses on wheels...

The problem never existed when they had half-drop windows at the front
of the top deck.

Even Routemasters don't have those. You'll have to go all the way back
to the RT bus (a pre-WWII design) to get half-drop windows at the front
of the top-deck.

--
Dave

The first 50 Routemasters produced didn't have drop front windows, but the
rest did, as it was found that the ventilation system was inadequate in hot
weather.