Graham J wrote:

Drifting off from the original subject. I am always amused when I hear the
whining and complaining at East Croydon about supposedly crowded trains in
the morning peaks. Yes they can be extremely crowded but they are as
nothing compared to those I used to encounter in the peaks from Edmonton
Green. They'd have been regarded as half empty there :-)

Commuting from Edmonton Green is somewhat more bearable now there are 6
trains an hour during the peak (though it annoys the good folk of
Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove no end that their
semi-fasts, which are all of five minutes quicker than the stoppers, now
stop everywhere!) between Edmonton Green and Liverpool Street.

Angel Road, however, now only gets a handful of trains in the
peaks...and those go to Stratford. Can you say, "Closure by stealth"?

Madness when you consider that Angel Road is virtually opposite Ikea and
Tesco Extra! (Though the access to the station is now from a road
overbridge a short distance off the *country* end of the platforms,
rather than the London end, thanks to the widening of the A406).

Cheers,

Barry

Angel Road, however, now only gets a handful of trains in the peaks...and
those go to Stratford. Can you say, "Closure by stealth"?

Madness when you consider that Angel Road is virtually opposite Ikea and
Tesco Extra! (Though the access to the station is now from a road
overbridge a short distance off the *country* end of the platforms, rather
than the London end, thanks to the widening of the A406).

I've never actually used Angel Road station but I have to say it doesn't
look very inviting having to find your way to the top of the overbridge,
which isn't exactly the most accessible of places, and then walk under the
bridge and along a rather enclosed footpath to get to the platforms, and
then if you want the other platform you need to use a footbridge. I can't
say I fancy that much.

The other thing the A406 widening did was to remove the pavements which
isn't very helpful to pedestrians. I used to walk from the Angel to Wickes
etc but that put a stop to that.

You would have thought there was a better way of providing access to the
station. It seems to me it has been provided on the wrong side of the road.

G.

Graham J wrote:

I've never actually used Angel Road station but I have to say it doesn't
look very inviting having to find your way to the top of the overbridge,
which isn't exactly the most accessible of places, and then walk under the
bridge and along a rather enclosed footpath to get to the platforms, and
then if you want the other platform you need to use a footbridge. I can't
say I fancy that much.

I've used it. It isn't pleasant, not least because it's unstaffed and,
the one time I did use it, the light underneath the road overbridge was
broken, which wasn't fun even during the day.

The other thing the A406 widening did was to remove the pavements which
isn't very helpful to pedestrians. I used to walk from the Angel to Wickes
etc but that put a stop to that.

I think there's some sort of subway type arrangement at the Montagu Road
junction, but I can't remember. In any case, if you want to do that walk
now you have to start out walking along the Montagu Road side of Angel
Road, then cross over, and continue down and over one of the "side"
flyovers (the one nearest Tesco) to get to Wickes.

Either that or get a bus down to MFI and then cross possibly *the*
scariest footbridge in London as you cross at least eight lanes of
traffic, possibly ten (Advent Way, the North Circ and Argon Road) on a
high metal footbridge. Not one for anyone suffering vertigo!

You would have thought there was a better way of providing access to the
station. It seems to me it has been provided on the wrong side of the road.

Indeed...But then people might actually *want* to use the station to get
to, ooh, Tesco and Ikea, which are conveniently located right next to
the A406, so "one" would actually have to provide a half-decent service.

Cynic, me?

Cheers,

Barry

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:14:48 +0000, Barry Salter
wrote:

Graham J wrote:

I've never actually used Angel Road station but I have to say it doesn't
look very inviting having to find your way to the top of the overbridge,
which isn't exactly the most accessible of places, and then walk under the
bridge and along a rather enclosed footpath to get to the platforms, and
then if you want the other platform you need to use a footbridge. I can't
say I fancy that much.

I've used it. It isn't pleasant, not least because it's unstaffed and,
the one time I did use it, the light underneath the road overbridge was
broken, which wasn't fun even during the day.

It certainly doesn't look inviting. I've tried to fathom how to access
the place when I've gone past on a 192 bus but it doesn't look easy. The
surrounding environment / pavement access is, as you say, unhelpful at
best and a distinct deterrent at worst.

Either that or get a bus down to MFI and then cross possibly *the*
scariest footbridge in London as you cross at least eight lanes of
traffic, possibly ten (Advent Way, the North Circ and Argon Road) on a
high metal footbridge. Not one for anyone suffering vertigo!

I'm not good with heights and I have crossed that bridge a few times to
get from Ikea / Tesco to the 34 stop back towards Walthamstow. While you
can clearly get from one side of the road to the other it is very
unfriendly and just shows that minimal thought was given to possible
usage of that link. It's truly awful if you are carrying bags and how
people with buggies cope I don't know. I can understand why subways are
no longer the choice for getting people across major highways but making
the bridge easier to use and weather proof / protected would be a start.
More people now use that link - especially since Ikea popped up and yet
no one seems to understand that it's bloody awful to use.

Exactly the same issues apply at Neasden Ikea where there is a similar
horrible walk from the tube station and another mountainous bridge to
use even if you catch a 232 bus. Similarly the return stop for the 232
is tucked out of sight towards St Raphaels or else means two flights of
stairs to scale a fence. Quite why a gate could not be constructed I
don't know or even better a proper bus lay-by with a decent well lit
shelter with a clear walking route from the store to the stop. Oh yes -
I forgot. Everyone goes to Ikea by car (not!).

You would have thought there was a better way of providing access to the
station. It seems to me it has been provided on the wrong side of the road.

Indeed...But then people might actually *want* to use the station to get
to, ooh, Tesco and Ikea, which are conveniently located right next to
the A406, so "one" would actually have to provide a half-decent service.

The station is clearly in the "wrong" place in the context of the recent
retail developments. It's probably in the "right" place if the aim was
to provide access to housing in the Montagu Road area.

The real evidence for me that the station really serves none of these
areas at all well is the popularity of the 192 bus. It is often full on
leaving Tottenham Hale and carries a decent volume of people to Tesco /
Ikea. However plenty of people travel further on to the Montagu Road
area and then you get the flows to and from Edmonton Green / Enfield.

The fact that it darts round the back streets of Bush Hill Park makes it
difficult to use bigger vehicles (too many tight turns) or run a more
frequent service (too much risk of buses meeting head on on narrow
residential streets).

If Angel Road was more convenient and safer to use and had a much better
service then I expect the 192 would not be as oversubscribed as it is.

Cynic, me?

Oh just possibly.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Exactly the same issues apply at Neasden Ikea where there is a similar
horrible walk from the tube station and another mountainous bridge to
use even if you catch a 232 bus.

Croydon Ikea is fortunately much easier to get to on foot from the tram
stop. However to get to it one has to cross the entrance road to the car
park which has a small traffic island in the middle. They clearly expect
you to go a few yards to your right, cross, and then walk to the left again
but the natural thing to do is to walk straight across from pavement to
pavement. Unfortunately the entrance to the car park is protected by large
suspended barrier which they have chosen to put alongside the island on this
direct route and it ends up about six feet above the ground. Fortunately
I'm not a six footer or I'd have been hospitalised on several occasions.

G.

On Mar 1, 5:42 am, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:14:48 +0000, Barry Salter

wrote:
Graham J wrote:

I've never actually used Angel Road station but I have to say it doesn't
look very inviting having to find your way to the top of the overbridge,
which isn't exactly the most accessible of places, and then walk under the
bridge and along a rather enclosed footpath to get to the platforms, and
then if you want the other platform you need to use a footbridge. I can't
say I fancy that much.

I've used it. It isn't pleasant, not least because it's unstaffed and,
the one time I did use it, the light underneath the road overbridge was
broken, which wasn't fun even during the day.

It certainly doesn't look inviting. I've tried to fathom how to access
the place when I've gone past on a 192 bus but it doesn't look easy. The
surrounding environment / pavement access is, as you say, unhelpful at
best and a distinct deterrent at worst.

Either that or get a bus down to MFI and then cross possibly *the*
scariest footbridge in London as you cross at least eight lanes of
traffic, possibly ten (Advent Way, the North Circ and Argon Road) on a
high metal footbridge. Not one for anyone suffering vertigo!

I'm not good with heights and I have crossed that bridge a few times to
get from Ikea / Tesco to the 34 stop back towards Walthamstow. While you
can clearly get from one side of the road to the other it is very
unfriendly and just shows that minimal thought was given to possible
usage of that link. It's truly awful if you are carrying bags and how
people with buggies cope I don't know. I can understand why subways are
no longer the choice for getting people across major highways but making
the bridge easier to use and weather proof / protected would be a start.
More people now use that link - especially since Ikea popped up and yet
no one seems to understand that it's bloody awful to use.

Exactly the same issues apply at Neasden Ikea where there is a similar
horrible walk from the tube station and another mountainous bridge to
use even if you catch a 232 bus. Similarly the return stop for the 232
is tucked out of sight towards St Raphaels or else means two flights of
stairs to scale a fence. Quite why a gate could not be constructed I
don't know or even better a proper bus lay-by with a decent well lit
shelter with a clear walking route from the store to the stop. Oh yes -
I forgot. Everyone goes to Ikea by car (not!).

You would have thought there was a better way of providing access to the
station. It seems to me it has been provided on the wrong side of the road.

Indeed...But then people might actually *want* to use the station to get
to, ooh, Tesco and Ikea, which are conveniently located right next to
the A406, so "one" would actually have to provide a half-decent service.

The station is clearly in the "wrong" place in the context of the recent
retail developments. It's probably in the "right" place if the aim was
to provide access to housing in the Montagu Road area.

The real evidence for me that the station really serves none of these
areas at all well is the popularity of the 192 bus. It is often full on
leaving Tottenham Hale and carries a decent volume of people to Tesco /
Ikea. However plenty of people travel further on to the Montagu Road
area and then you get the flows to and from Edmonton Green / Enfield.

The fact that it darts round the back streets of Bush Hill Park makes it
difficult to use bigger vehicles (too many tight turns) or run a more
frequent service (too much risk of buses meeting head on on narrow
residential streets).

If Angel Road was more convenient and safer to use and had a much better
service then I expect the 192 would not be as oversubscribed as it is.

--
Paul C

Whatever happened to the concept of "Town Planning"?

Adrian