From my recent First Class journeys in the South East, I have found
that demand for it is practically non-existent on suburban routes
outside of peak hours - this is particularly my experience on the FCC
Bedford-East Croydon service.

However, I have found that these operators now have an off-peak 'First
Cheap Day Return'. FCC have this, as does FGW. Why do very few
people take up these offers, which seem to be good value for money?
Is there a general assumption that First Class is far too expensive?

Andrea wrote:

However, I have found that these operators now have an off-peak 'First
Cheap Day Return'. FCC have this, as does FGW. Why do very few
people take up these offers, which seem to be good value for money?
Is there a general assumption that First Class is far too expensive?

It often is, for what you actually get. The quality varies dramatically
between operators, though. For example, on Southern Electrostars the First
Class consists of nothing more than an antimacasseur on your seat back. The
seats are EXACTLY the same as in standard class, at the same pitch and
spacing and many of the ones in Standard are arranged 2+2, the same as in
First Class. Off-peak you might be lucky enough not to get someone sitting
next to you but, from the number of people that I see on Southern, that
blatantly ignore the FC markings, it isn't worth even considering.

On 15 Mar, 11:47, "Andrea" wrote:
From my recent First Class journeys in the South East, I have found

that demand for it is practically non-existent on suburban routes
outside of peak hours - this is particularly my experience on the FCC
Bedford-East Croydon service.

However, I have found that these operators now have an off-peak 'First
Cheap Day Return'. FCC have this, as does FGW. Why do very few
people take up these offers, which seem to be good value for money?
Is there a general assumption that First Class is far too expensive?


Because I don't mind sitting with the real people.

"Andrea" wrote:

From my recent First Class journeys in the South East, I have found
that demand for it is practically non-existent on suburban routes
outside of peak hours - this is particularly my experience on the FCC
Bedford-East Croydon service.

However, I have found that these operators now have an off-peak 'First
Cheap Day Return'. FCC have this, as does FGW. Why do very few
people take up these offers, which seem to be good value for money?

Because First Class is rarely enforced in the south east - SWT are an
exception - and is therefore frequently invaded by kids/yobs/druggies,
making it less pleasant than travelling with the great unwashed in steerage.

Chris

On 15 Mar 2007 04:47:54 -0700, "Andrea" wrote:

Is there a general assumption that First Class is far too expensive?

Nationally, probably, though if a First Class Saver existed on all
long-distance routes with the same restrictions as the normal Saver
with the fare at 150% of the Standard Saver, I'd likely buy a few.

I think it's two things. Firstly, first class isn't seen as being
worth it for short journeys. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly,
first class on commuter services isn't a particularly high standard of
accommodation, as the benefit in the peaks is just that you get a
seat. The West Coast Desiros are a good example - you get more
legroom in Standard.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message ,
writes
.Or like the family who came pushing into my row of seats a few weeks
ago on a Belgium train and started treating the train like they owned
it

Whereas in fact, as you've pointed out, it was *your* row? :-)

--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On 15 Mar, 13:19, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
Andrea wrote:

However, I have found that these operators now have an off-peak 'First
Cheap Day Return'. FCC have this, as does FGW. Why do very few
people take up these offers, which seem to be good value for money?
Is there a general assumption that First Class is far too expensive?

It often is, for what you actually get. The quality varies dramatically
between operators, though. For example, on Southern Electrostars the First
Class consists of nothing more than an antimacasseur on your seat back. The
seats are EXACTLY the same as in standard class, at the same pitch and
spacing and many of the ones in Standard are arranged 2+2, the same as in
First Class. Off-peak you might be lucky enough not to get someone sitting
next to you but, from the number of people that I see on Southern, that
blatantly ignore the FC markings, it isn't worth even considering.


Off-peak, South West Trains still seems able to attract a number of
people into first class. I don't remember the seats being comfier in
any significant way, though they do have a 2x2 layout as opposed to a
2x3 so there's more space - but this benefit will be most appreciated
by peak commuters.

On 15 Mar, 19:55, wrote:
On 15 Mar 2007 12:09:11 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:

Because I don't mind sitting with the real people.

Oh dear by "real people" do you mean people like the stupid women who
allowed her kid to run up and down the coach all the way from Euston
to Preston back in November nearly knocking the train manager off his
feet on one occasion .Or like the family who came pushing into my row
of seats a few weeks ago on a Belgium train and started treating the
train like they owned it not giving a damn about disturbing myself and
other passengers.
It is only the massive extra charge for first class that keeps me out
of there I can tell you, you can keep your "real people", this is the
only reason I own a car because it lets me keep well away from
your "real people" on public transport. I have a free travel card on
our local buses had it two years now and think I have only used it
four times .

It's a shame you ran out of puff because I was enjoying that!

My answer, of course, was somewhat flippant - however the OP was
asking about off-peak take up of first class on suburban routes in the
south east, where I think the advantage of first class advantage is
probably most apparent during the rush hour - first class would
presumably mean one is far more likely to get a seat, and get slightly
more space too. Off-peak there just isn't the need for these things.

Plus of course many suburban trains don't have any first class
accomodation anyway.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 15 Mar, 13:19, "Jack Taylor" wrote:

It often is, for what you actually get. The quality varies dramatically
between operators, though. For example, on Southern Electrostars the
First
Class consists of nothing more than an antimacasseur on your seat back.
The
seats are EXACTLY the same as in standard class, at the same pitch and
spacing and many of the ones in Standard are arranged 2+2, the same as in
First Class. Off-peak you might be lucky enough not to get someone
sitting
next to you but, from the number of people that I see on Southern, that
blatantly ignore the FC markings, it isn't worth even considering.


Off-peak, South West Trains still seems able to attract a number of
people into first class. I don't remember the seats being comfier in
any significant way, though they do have a 2x2 layout as opposed to a
2x3 so there's more space - but this benefit will be most appreciated
by peak commuters.


There's still a fair number of trains (444s and 159s) with 2+1 first class
on the longer distance routes, with a sprinkling of passengers during the
interpeaks...

Paul

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:55:06 +0000, wrote:

On 15 Mar 2007 12:09:11 -0700, "Mizter T" wrote:


Because I don't mind sitting with the real people.

Oh dear by "real people" do you mean people like the stupid women who
allowed her kid to run up and down the coach all the way from Euston
to Preston back in November nearly knocking the train manager off his
feet on one occasion .Or like the family who came pushing into my row
of seats a few weeks ago on a Belgium train and started treating the
train like they owned it not giving a damn about disturbing myself and
other passengers.
It is only the massive extra charge for first class that keeps me out
of there I can tell you, you can keep your "real people", this is the
only reason I own a car because it lets me keep well away from
your "real people" on public transport. I have a free travel card on
our local buses had it two years now and think I have only used it
four times .

Given that you apparently have no time for public transport or the
people who use it why are you bothering to read and post to a usenet
group about transport in London? Surely the delights of uk.transport
would be more appropriate given your preference for travelling in an
insulated metal box away from the travails of being near "real people"
rather than those nice artificial ones who cause traffic jams, cut you
up and generally drive like arseholes on Britain's roads. I'm sure you
must have come across one or two of them on your travels.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!