Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

some freight
actually originates and terminates in London!

Where? TIA.

On Mar 18, 3:27 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

You going to pay the cost of double tracking from Soham to Ely?

Not me, but it's being seriously suggested that TfL ought to.

Also, some people here seem to be overlooking that some freight actually
originates and terminates in London!

That is steady/declining, while container freight from the ports is
booming, which is the root of this problem.

On Mar 18, 3:27 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Not a good reason not to have an Oyster card for this Cambridge resident.

This Cambridge resident takes a train to KX then cycles. I still have
Oyster for those inevitable accidents.

On Mar 18, 8:27 am, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article .com,



(TimB) wrote:
On Mar 16, 10:20 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
plus some!

Not really - Ipswich-Peterborough would do (widening and
electrification, please).

Part of the problem is the number of larger containers that are
currently only passed for the route via the NLL. IIRC Hutchinson
Ports have already offered to contribute towards gauge enhancements
on the Ipswich to Peterborough route, to allow trains to run that
way.

Which is what I meant by widening. The sooner the better!

You going to pay the cost of double tracking from Soham to Ely?

Also, some people here seem to be overlooking that some freight actually
originates and terminates in London!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

It certainly does. However, my guess is that the major part by for is
destined for points north of the freight arc I have described
elsewhere.

We really need some statistics on the origin and destination of
freight flows within the UK. Does anyone utilizing these groups have
such?

Adrian

On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:41:05 -0400, David of Broadway
wrote:

David of Broadway wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

until the
yanks stop treating all visitors as potential criminals and terrorists
it will be a long time before I visit again despite the fact I love the
city.

If it's any consolations, citizens are treated similarly.

In under two years, we'll have a new president.

On second thought, might I suggest reconsidering?

You may make any suggestion you wish.

I very much doubt that I will change my mind. If I decided I wanted to
travel to somewhere that made no pretence that it was other than a
dictatorship with highly restrictive entry rules then I would know I
would have to submit to stupid security and immigration checks. It would
be my express choice to submit to such stupidity.

To have to do the same to travel to "the land of the free" which spends
billions allegedly spreading freedom and democracy around the world I
find unacceptable. I appreciate I am losing out my not visiting what I
recognise as a true world city but then the American economy is also
losing out my not having me as a visitor. What goes around comes around.
One day someone will relax the rules to what is acceptable.

Currently, most of our B Division (former BMT/IND, with lettered route
designations) routes run at least some rolling stock with windows at the
front of the train, with a nice view of the track ahead (like on DLR).
Unfortunately, most if not all of that older rolling stock -- the R-32,
R-38, R-40, and R-42 -- is slated to be replaced by the R-160 order,
which has already started coming in.

In particular, these ...

http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=52000
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=42146
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=51538
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=43700

Excellent pictures.

If anybody's planning to visit New York, send me an email and I'll tell
you where you can find what.

In the meantime I get my small NYPD subway fix by watching the truly
excellent video to George Michael's Killer / Papa was a rolling stone. I
was going to set you the challenge to see if you could identify the
various locations as they seem to be archetypal shots of subway trains /
junctions. Not too bothered by the stations as they are particularly
difficult to identify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH6GIr_O07o

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 18 Mar 2007 17:00:38 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:

On Mar 18, 11:49 pm, asdf wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 09:14:39 -0700, MIG wrote:

Not a good reason not to have an Oyster card for this Cambridge resident.

I bet you are looking forward to Oyster being introduced on FCC/One in
Greater London, so that you'll have to get off to touch in/out and
wait half an hour for the next train every journey or else pay more
for the bit where you could do it on Oyster (probably at an
excessively hiked rate to discourage non-Oyster use in Greater London
etc).

If travelling from Manchester to London, do you currently have to hurl
yourself off the train at Harrow & Wealdstone (where PAYG becomes
valid), pick yourself up, dust yourself off, touch in with your
Oyster, and continue your journey on a local train, or else pay a
higher fare?

(Hint: the answer is no)



The fare from Manchester to Harrow and Wealdstone is probably higher
tha Manchester to Euston (one of those anomalies).

I doubt it actually but I haven't checked.

Is VWC one of the companies to which Oyster validity will be
relevant? I suspect that the answer is no.

Not in the short term I would agree. However it is demonstrably clear
that all TOCs are being pushed into pursuing acceptance and issuing of
the ITSO smartcard that will end up working on TfL's network at some
point. Once there they will wish to make the most effective use of the
technology - especially in terms of reducing retailing costs while
offering very attractive and seamless travel. If there is a parallel
move to get ITSO smartcard acceptance onto buses (hint - national OAP
concessionary travel) then Plusbus onto smartcard alongside NR and TfL
starts to look pretty easy. Plusbus areas may also end up expanding in
bigger contiguous zonal areas thus improving coverage and integration.

New XC, West Midlands, East Midlands and GNER retendering all specify
that smartcard systems must form of these franchises. The two Midlands
franchises have more of a logical fit given the traditional London
commuter flows but it's clear that DfT wants a national policy.

I do not know who the current Virgin trains rep is for ticketing but the
one I used to deal with years back was very keen on the opportunities
offered by smartcard and I can't imagine the business view has changed
that much within Virgin.

Has this got any relevance to a more likely journey where the company
involved will have to allow Oyster, eg Tring or Watford to London? I
think the answer is no.

Does what I suggested seem unreasonable and unlikely to happen? The
answer is yes.

Is the example of what has actually happened with Oyster so far
totally unreasonable? The answer is yes.

Have we got good reason to expect unreasonable fare hikes based on
current experience? The answer is yes.

Accepting that you are not "pro Oyster" I think it is far too early to
be drawing conclusions as to what the final system will look like and
what it will require. Gazing into my own crystal ball I cannot see that
any of the "loony" scenarios with people having to change at boundaries
will happen. They don't with TfL auto extensions so I fail to see why NR
should be any different. One of the key issues will be application of
commercial rules for interchanges and journey times as well as effective
validation opportunities. This is where it becomes hugely important that
the interface with passengers and their cards is as clear and simple as
possible. If it is not, and I accept London at present can be
bewildering, then the system will fail.

Anyway my crystal ball gazing is all academic - I applied for the (TfL)
job of Head of Oyster Development but didn't even get an interview.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mar 19, 5:47 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 17:00:38 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:





On Mar 18, 11:49 pm, asdf wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 09:14:39 -0700, MIG wrote:

Not a good reason not to have an Oyster card for this Cambridge resident.

I bet you are looking forward to Oyster being introduced on FCC/One in
Greater London, so that you'll have to get off to touch in/out and
wait half an hour for the next train every journey or else pay more
for the bit where you could do it on Oyster (probably at an
excessively hiked rate to discourage non-Oyster use in Greater London
etc).

If travelling from Manchester to London, do you currently have to hurl
yourself off the train at Harrow & Wealdstone (where PAYG becomes
valid), pick yourself up, dust yourself off, touch in with your
Oyster, and continue your journey on a local train, or else pay a
higher fare?

(Hint: the answer is no)

The fare from Manchester to Harrow and Wealdstone is probably higher
tha Manchester to Euston (one of those anomalies).

I doubt it actually but I haven't checked.

Is VWC one of the companies to which Oyster validity will be
relevant? I suspect that the answer is no.

Not in the short term I would agree. However it is demonstrably clear
that all TOCs are being pushed into pursuing acceptance and issuing of
the ITSO smartcard that will end up working on TfL's network at some
point. Once there they will wish to make the most effective use of the
technology - especially in terms of reducing retailing costs while
offering very attractive and seamless travel. If there is a parallel
move to get ITSO smartcard acceptance onto buses (hint - national OAP
concessionary travel) then Plusbus onto smartcard alongside NR and TfL
starts to look pretty easy. Plusbus areas may also end up expanding in
bigger contiguous zonal areas thus improving coverage and integration.

New XC, West Midlands, East Midlands and GNER retendering all specify
that smartcard systems must form of these franchises. The two Midlands
franchises have more of a logical fit given the traditional London
commuter flows but it's clear that DfT wants a national policy.

I do not know who the current Virgin trains rep is for ticketing but the
one I used to deal with years back was very keen on the opportunities
offered by smartcard and I can't imagine the business view has changed
that much within Virgin.

Has this got any relevance to a more likely journey where the company
involved will have to allow Oyster, eg Tring or Watford to London? I
think the answer is no.

Does what I suggested seem unreasonable and unlikely to happen? The
answer is yes.

Is the example of what has actually happened with Oyster so far
totally unreasonable? The answer is yes.

Have we got good reason to expect unreasonable fare hikes based on
current experience? The answer is yes.

Accepting that you are not "pro Oyster" I think it is far too early to
be drawing conclusions as to what the final system will look like and
what it will require. Gazing into my own crystal ball I cannot see that
any of the "loony" scenarios with people having to change at boundaries
will happen. They don't with TfL auto extensions so I fail to see why NR
should be any different.


But I do have to change at the boundary on LU. It happens to me
repeatedly when, for practical reasons, I have a paper travelcard for
zones 1 and 2 plus some Oyster PAYG credit and have to go so somewhere
like Canning town (as I did on several occasions last year). I had to
keep changing at North Greenwich, which involves quite a long trip to
the gates, adding about ten minutes in each direction.

If I have so submit so such nonsense within the LU system, despite
there being obvious solutions (such as issuing of paper extensions to
holders of paper travelcards at a reasonable price) why would I assume
that there will be a more reasonable attitude to people with National
Rail tickets than there is to people with National Rail travelcards?

I agree that one can't possibly know, but the only evidence we have is
what has been done so far.



One of the key issues will be application of
commercial rules for interchanges and journey times as well as effective
validation opportunities. This is where it becomes hugely important that
the interface with passengers and their cards is as clear and simple as
possible. If it is not, and I accept London at present can be
bewildering, then the system will fail.

Anyway my crystal ball gazing is all academic - I applied for the (TfL)
job of Head of Oyster Development but didn't even get an interview.
--
Paul C

Admits to working for London Underground!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In article .com,
(TimB) wrote:

On Mar 18, 3:27 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

Not a good reason not to have an Oyster card for this Cambridge
resident.

This Cambridge resident takes a train to KX then cycles. I still
have Oyster for those inevitable accidents.

I think we're agreeing!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article .com,
(TimB) wrote:

On Mar 18, 3:27 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:

You going to pay the cost of double tracking from Soham to Ely?

Not me, but it's being seriously suggested that TfL ought to.

Also, some people here seem to be overlooking that some freight
actually originates and terminates in London!

That is steady/declining, while container freight from the ports is
booming, which is the root of this problem.

The containers don't *all* go to the Midlands and "oop North".

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 18 Mar 2007 17:00:38 -0700, "MIG"
wrote:

The fare from Manchester to Harrow and Wealdstone is probably higher
tha Manchester to Euston (one of those anomalies).

I doubt it actually but I haven't checked.

SVR MAN-HRW route NOT LONDON: 59.70
SVR MAN-London Terminals route ANY PERMITTED: 59.50 (and it's even less
route CHESTERFIELD)
--
Michael Hoffman