In article , Roland Perry
writes
I am sceptical about this new concourse. The Circle line is under the
main road, so all you are altering is where people climb up to the
surface. I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north to
start with helps very much.

For the Circle, it won't.

Similarly, the escalators for the deep tube lines stretch pretty much
parallel to the main road, from a point at the front of the station
towards KX Thameslink, and the tube platforms "point" that way too.
Taking people from the deep tube lines via this new concourse is also a
long way round.

Not so.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the distance
involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a hairpin to end
up almost where you started).

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms; these will connect into an
extension of the Thameslink access tunnel which will lead to the
midpoint of the two flights of escalators from the Northern Line. This
tunnel will *roughly* follow the route of the present King's Cross
footbridge from platform 3/4 to the present FCC ticket office. It will
therefore be no longer - and far more convenient - than the present
exit.

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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In message , at 11:08:15 on Tue, 20
Mar 2007, Clive D. W. Feather remarked:

I am sceptical about this new concourse. The Circle line is under the
main road, so all you are altering is where people climb up to the
surface. I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north
to start with helps very much.

For the Circle, it won't.

Won't help very much, presumably.

Similarly, the escalators for the deep tube lines stretch pretty much
parallel to the main road, from a point at the front of the station
towards KX Thameslink, and the tube platforms "point" that way too.
Taking people from the deep tube lines via this new concourse is also
a long way round.

Not so.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the
distance involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a
hairpin to end up almost where you started).

Trying to visualise this. At the moment there's one long escalator down,
then you turn back for a short one to platform level. Where about on the
train is that (let's say you are catching one to London Bridge). If
that's the rear of the train, then the front will indeed be closer to
Euston with the potential of a short-cut from the front of the train to
the northern ticket hall.

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms; these will connect into an
extension of the Thameslink access tunnel which will lead to the
midpoint of the two flights of escalators from the Northern Line. This
tunnel will *roughly* follow the route of the present King's Cross
footbridge from platform 3/4 to the present FCC ticket office. It will
therefore be no longer - and far more convenient - than the present exit.

Sounds like quite a dog-leg to get back to platforms 1-8. Might be a
quicker route to St Pancras, though. Are there plans to have tunnels
from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex - perhaps
that's what those escalators are that emerge just inside the current
main entrance. Still quite a way from the MML platforms

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.

Are they proposing to close the Picc/Northern escalator shaft to the
existing concourse?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

Are there plans to have tunnels
from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex - perhaps
that's what those escalators are that emerge just inside the current main
entrance. Still quite a way from the MML platforms


Those escalators are definitely part of the future link to the northern
ticket hall, and labelled 'London Underground entrance from 2010' on the
plan I posted a link to elsewhere. If the underground passageway went any
further to the MML side of the station, people heading for the Kent side
would have to double back, and more importantly, MML passengers would miss
the shopping complex...

Paul

In message , at 15:59:55 on
Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Paul Scott remarked:
If the underground passageway went any further to the MML side of the
station, people heading for the Kent side would have to double back,
and more importantly, MML passengers would miss the shopping complex...

I'm rather assuming the tacky chipboard-walled shops in the ground floor
passageway (and the portakabin First Class Lounge) will be swept away
once the station gets a bit closer to completion. And there aren't any
shops between there and the MML buffers (apart from a couple of equally
temporary looking stalls selling warmed up cornish pasties etc).

But I agree that you don't want to dog-leg the Kent domestic passengers.

The main criticism is how far away the MML platforms are from the rest
of the complex.
--
Roland Perry

In article , Roland Perry
writes
I can't see why taking people a hundred yards further north to start
with helps very much.
For the Circle, it won't.
Won't help very much, presumably.

Yes, that's what I meant.

The main exit from the Northern Line will be from the western end via
stairs and then two flights of escalators to the Northern Ticket Hall.
The horizontal reach of these escalators will cover much of the
distance involved (at present, from the Northern Line you follow a
hairpin to end up almost where you started).
Trying to visualise this. At the moment there's one long escalator
down, then you turn back for a short one to platform level.

Right.

Where about on the train is that (let's say you are catching one to
London Bridge).

The bottom of the short escalator is somewhat east of the front of the
(southbound) train. The top of the long escalator is about 20m west of
there. In fact, this escalator is diagonally across the Northern Line so
that, to a first approximation, it lies over the rear car of a
northbound train standing in the platform.

If that's the rear of the train, then the front will indeed be closer
to Euston with the potential of a short-cut from the front of the train
to the northern ticket hall.

You seem to be back to front. The new stairway up to the new escalators
will start somewhere about carriage 5 of a southbound train. At surface
level it's just south of the Great Northern Hotel.

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms;
[...]
Sounds like quite a dog-leg to get back to platforms 1-8.

To platform 1, perhaps (the Piccadilly platforms are roughly under
platforms 2 and 4), but it'll bring you out in the new main line ticket
hall.

Might be a quicker route to St Pancras, though. Are there plans to have
tunnels from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex

I'm afraid I don't know.

That leaves only the Victoria Line exiting through the existing
concourse.
Are they proposing to close the Picc/Northern escalator shaft to the
existing concourse?

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

As far as I know, none of the existing exits will close. "second set of
escalators" above meant a second set for use by Piccadilly Line
passengers. The existing set will remain. And my comment about the
Victoria Line could perhaps have been better phrased. The existing
escalators to the existing concourse will remain, or passengers can use
the part of the existing Thameslink tunnel that runs from the Victoria
Line to the Piccadilly Line, and then the new passageway from the latter
to the Northern Ticket Hall.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:27:16 +0000, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote:

In article , Roland Perry
writes

For the Piccadilly Line there will be a second set of escalators,
starting at the north end of the platforms;
[...]
Sounds like quite a dog-leg to get back to platforms 1-8.

To platform 1, perhaps (the Piccadilly platforms are roughly under
platforms 2 and 4), but it'll bring you out in the new main line ticket
hall.

Might be a quicker route to St Pancras, though. Are there plans to have
tunnels from the Northern Ticket hall to inside the St Pancras complex

I'm afraid I don't know.

Isn't that the function of the tunnel already in place under Pancras
Road? (Open, but little used, during the TL blockade and now closed.).


--
Peter Lawrence