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Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
For as long as I've been taking it (i.e. at least 7 years), the 47 has
shown a destination of "Catford Bus Garage". Today I noticed that the new destination blinds now say "Bellingham" in large letters, with "Catford Bus Garage" in smaller letters next to it. Just wondering, who makes these decisions? Is there some sort of consultation process, or is it just someone in head office? Okay, Catford Bus Garage is right next to Bellingham Station, but it just seems odd to change the destination blind. Don't know if other buses terminating at the bus garage will now show "Bellingham" as well. Patrick |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 2 Apr, 14:41, wrote:
For as long as I've been taking it (i.e. at least 7 years), the 47 has shown a destination of "Catford Bus Garage". Today I noticed that the new destination blinds now say "Bellingham" in large letters, with "Catford Bus Garage" in smaller letters next to it. Just wondering, who makes these decisions? Is there some sort of consultation process, or is it just someone in head office? Please god let it be the latter ... a consultation process (no matter how small a process) for something as minor as this would be an extraordinary waste of money. D. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
"David F" wrote in message
oups.com... On 2 Apr, 14:41, wrote: For as long as I've been taking it (i.e. at least 7 years), the 47 has shown a destination of "Catford Bus Garage". Today I noticed that the new destination blinds now say "Bellingham" in large letters, with "Catford Bus Garage" in smaller letters next to it. Just wondering, who makes these decisions? Is there some sort of consultation process, or is it just someone in head office? Please god let it be the latter ... a consultation process (no matter how small a process) for something as minor as this would be an extraordinary waste of money. D. Why do buses going to the same terminus at Lewisham sometimes say "Lewisham" or "Lewisham Station" and sometimes "Lewisham DLR". It must be a committee! Of course, you can't actually go to the bus garage, they expect you to get off before then! MaxB |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
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Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 2 Apr, 14:41, wrote:
For as long as I've been taking it (i.e. at least 7 years), the 47 has shown a destination of "Catford Bus Garage". *Today I noticed that the new destination blinds now say "Bellingham" in large letters, with "Catford Bus Garage" in smaller letters next to it. Just wondering, who makes these decisions? *Is there some sort of consultation process, or is it just someone in head office? In the case of London such matters are overseen by a quango entitled "Transport for London" who will have a committee to deliberate on them. And as the saying goes "a camel is a horse designed by a committee". -- gordon |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
Dr J R Stockton wrote:
Judging by the last timetable / list of stops I recall, whoever it is may need to be told that New Malden Police Station is defunct (the police now have a non-station at the other end of the High Street; the buses ignore it, rightly giving precedence to the Railway Station). Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. Also who, whether TfL, "one" or National Rail needs to be told that the local maps up at Stratford still have cottoned on to the fact that it's now one station not "Stratford High Level" and "Stratford Low Level"? |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/default.aspx -- Michael Hoffman |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Apr 3, 11:12 am, Michael Hoffman wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote: Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/contact/default.aspx -- Michael Hoffman Sometimes changing the name to an updated name causes more confusion. Old historical names or defunct landmarks are SOMETIMES more useful to the travelling public. And drivers lack of geography in some cases is so shameful that it's of little use to them. The cost of all these changes must be huge in itself, let alone the comittee deciding on them in weekly meetings. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
[Tim Roll-Pickering]
Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. [Londoncityslicker] Sometimes changing the name to an updated name causes more confusion. Old historical names or defunct landmarks are SOMETIMES more useful to the travelling public. If you're trying to find "Queen Mary, University of London," I agree with Tim's implicit point that another name for it would only be confusing. And drivers lack of geography in some cases is so shameful that it's of little use to them. The cost of all these changes must be huge in itself, let alone the comittee deciding on them in weekly meetings. I'm not sure such a committee exists. -- Michael Hoffman |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Apr 2, 6:21 pm, "MaxB" wrote:
"David F" wrote in message oups.com... On 2 Apr, 14:41, wrote: For as long as I've been taking it (i.e. at least 7 years), the 47 has shown a destination of "Catford Bus Garage". Today I noticed that the new destination blinds now say "Bellingham" in large letters, with "Catford Bus Garage" in smaller letters next to it. Just wondering, who makes these decisions? Is there some sort of consultation process, or is it just someone in head office? Please god let it be the latter ... a consultation process (no matter how small a process) for something as minor as this would be an extraordinary waste of money. D. Why do buses going to the same terminus at Lewisham sometimes say "Lewisham" or "Lewisham Station" and sometimes "Lewisham DLR". It must be a committee! Of course, you can't actually go to the bus garage, they expect you to get off before then! That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:09:01 +0100, Michael Hoffman
wrote: [Tim Roll-Pickering] Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. [Londoncityslicker] Sometimes changing the name to an updated name causes more confusion. Old historical names or defunct landmarks are SOMETIMES more useful to the travelling public. If you're trying to find "Queen Mary, University of London," I agree with Tim's implicit point that another name for it would only be confusing. And drivers lack of geography in some cases is so shameful that it's of little use to them. The cost of all these changes must be huge in itself, let alone the comittee deciding on them in weekly meetings. I'm not sure such a committee exists. It does - the Bus Blinds Committee. The aim as I understand it is to ensure consistency of presentation and compliance with DDA requirements. There has been an element of controversy given some of the blinds that have been created and some of those have been changed back. The underlying issue is that people are highly resistant to change and thus this issue has a somewhat disproportionate profile. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. Despite it not being terribly sensical. Queen Mary *what*? It's clearly not an actual queen - nor is it a university of London! Aha! I refer you to page 1 of: http://www.finance.qmul.ac.uk/docs/F...0statement.pdf It seems QMUL is a sort of trading name, with the real name still being QMW. As you say, everyone calls it QMUL, and i agree that buses should too, but it's somewhat interesting anyway. tom -- Just add a little flange and phase in |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
Tom Anderson wrote:
Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. Despite it not being terribly sensical. Queen Mary *what*? It's clearly not an actual queen - nor is it a university of London! No but it's named after a Queen (Mary of Teck aka Mrs George V). And it is part of the University of London (one of the loyalist parts of the lot). I guess whoever originated the style (there's also "Birkbeck, University of London", "Royal Holloway, University of London" and now "Goldsmiths, University of London") may have been thinking of "Queen's University of Belfast" or "State University of New York" or somesuch. It seems QMUL is a sort of trading name, with the real name still being QMW. As you say, everyone calls it QMUL, and i agree that buses should too, but it's somewhat interesting anyway. The main problems are that "College" and "Westfield" are not used in the name given on *EVERYTHING*, whilst "University" is missing from the name on bus stops and timetables (for someone who doesn't know the area too well, having "university" there does help them). And "Westfield" is historically very recent - it only merged with QM in 1989 and the name was dropped from day to day use in 2000 - so it's not as if this is an essential historic name. I'll drop TfL a line, both on buses and the DLR map. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:58:30 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: Dr J R Stockton wrote: Judging by the last timetable / list of stops I recall, whoever it is may need to be told that New Malden Police Station is defunct (the police now have a non-station at the other end of the High Street; the buses ignore it, rightly giving precedence to the Railway Station). Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. What, even the Charter? :-) |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:42:27 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote: Tom Anderson wrote: Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. Despite it not being terribly sensical. Queen Mary *what*? It's clearly not an actual queen - nor is it a university of London! No but it's named after a Queen (Mary of Teck aka Mrs George V). And it is part of the University of London (one of the loyalist parts of the lot). I guess whoever originated the style (there's also "Birkbeck, University of London", "Royal Holloway, University of London" and now "Goldsmiths, University of London") may have been thinking of "Queen's University of Belfast" or "State University of New York" or somesuch. I *think* RHUL started it. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. Despite it not being terribly sensical. Queen Mary *what*? It's clearly not an actual queen - nor is it a university of London! No but it's named after a Queen (Mary of Teck aka Mrs George V). And it is part of the University of London (one of the loyalist parts of the lot). I guess whoever originated the style (there's also "Birkbeck, University of London", "Royal Holloway, University of London" and now "Goldsmiths, University of London") may have been thinking of "Queen's University of Belfast" or "State University of New York" or somesuch. But not thinking too hard about the need for nouns. I hadn't realised Birkbeck and Goldsmiths had gone that way too; yuck. What next? "Oriental and African, University of London"? Sounds like a shipping line! Or even "University, University of London"? It seems QMUL is a sort of trading name, with the real name still being QMW. As you say, everyone calls it QMUL, and i agree that buses should too, but it's somewhat interesting anyway. The main problems are that "College" and "Westfield" are not used in the name given on *EVERYTHING*, whilst "University" is missing from the name on bus stops and timetables (for someone who doesn't know the area too well, having "university" there does help them). And "Westfield" is historically very recent - it only merged with QM in 1989 and the name was dropped from day to day use in 2000 - so it's not as if this is an essential historic name. Agreed. But the current name still annoys me! tom -- double mashed, future mashed, millennium mashed; man it was mashed |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG"
wrote: That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? At least TfL don't have buses running round with "Wolverhampton" on the blind with the "hamp" coloured in in black pen to make it say "Wolver ton", nor with "Blecthley" on, nor other sillies as can be seen on the contracted evening services in Milton Keynes. Perhaps we should be grateful that it isn't just a bit of A4 in the windscreen... Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote:
On Apr 2, 6:21 pm, "MaxB" wrote: Why do buses going to the same terminus at Lewisham sometimes say "Lewisham" or "Lewisham Station" and sometimes "Lewisham DLR". It must be a committee! No there wasn't a committee in place which is why you get the spread of names. To be fair there are three main terminating points in Lewisham - Tescos, the NR / DLR / Bus station area and Molesworth Street. They are all geographically separate so should be differentiated (IMO). Of course, you can't actually go to the bus garage, they expect you to get off before then! There isn't a bus *garage* in Lewisham. Do you mean the station? That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? Bus companies certainly have designed their own blinds before the recent introduction of the TfL committee. I believe there was still a level of central checking in the old days but it's much more tightly controlled now. Not necessarily a correlation although First's blinds have probably been the most distinctive in terms of different practice - such as use of the LU and NR symbols to indicate stations. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Apr 3, 9:16 pm, (Neil Williams)
wrote: On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote: That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? At least TfL don't have buses running round with "Wolverhampton" on the blind with the "hamp" coloured in in black pen to make it say "Wolver ton", nor with "Blecthley" on, nor other sillies as can be seen on the contracted evening services in Milton Keynes. Perhaps we should be grateful that it isn't just a bit of A4 in the windscreen... Although a few years ago on the 185 (which goes to Lewisham as it happens), there was a real mixture of almost-museum-piece buses from various counties, with carboard destinations in the front windows and so on. Maybe someone else can remember the story of the operator which went bust, resulting in that situation. I think the 185 was the only route they had run. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
James Farrar wrote:
Similarly where do I go to tell TfL that "Queen Mary & Westfield College" is out of date and should read "Queen Mary, University of London" on the bus stops, timetable and DLR area map? This one seriously annoys me - QMW is seriously out of date and everything now says QMUL. What, even the Charter? :-) Yes but who reads the Charter. Seriously. I've only seen it once when I had a college meeting in the Council Chamber. I think the signs, website, letterhead, prospectus, even my golf umbrella (yes I have one of those!) are rather more visible! |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
Tom Anderson wrote:
I hadn't realised Birkbeck and Goldsmiths had gone that way too; yuck. What next? "Oriental and African, University of London"? Sounds like a shipping line! Or even "University, University of London"? I have seen "University College, University of London". I can well understand why they push just "UCL" as their brand. I about SOAS but how about "SOASUL"? The main problems are that "College" and "Westfield" are not used in the name given on *EVERYTHING*, whilst "University" is missing from the name on bus stops and timetables (for someone who doesn't know the area too well, having "university" there does help them). And "Westfield" is historically very recent - it only merged with QM in 1989 and the name was dropped from day to day use in 2000 - so it's not as if this is an essential historic name. Agreed. But the current name still annoys me! I like it. It combines my college and university in one, rolls off the tongue easily and the acronym doesn't drop words. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
... On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote: On Apr 2, 6:21 pm, "MaxB" wrote: Why do buses going to the same terminus at Lewisham sometimes say "Lewisham" or "Lewisham Station" and sometimes "Lewisham DLR". It must be a committee! No there wasn't a committee in place which is why you get the spread of names. To be fair there are three main terminating points in Lewisham - Tescos, the NR / DLR / Bus station area and Molesworth Street. They are all geographically separate so should be differentiated (IMO). Of course, you can't actually go to the bus garage, they expect you to get off before then! There isn't a bus *garage* in Lewisham. Do you mean the station? (Snip) I was referring to the OP's original point about Catford Bus garage (which of course isn't in Catford either!). MaxB |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
In message om, MIG
writes Although a few years ago on the 185 (which goes to Lewisham as it happens), there was a real mixture of almost-museum-piece buses from various counties, with carboard destinations in the front windows and so on. Maybe someone else can remember the story of the operator which went bust, resulting in that situation. I think the 185 was the only route they had run. I remember when the ex-WMPTE Volvo Ailsas were running in North London (can't remember the route). They still had signs inside inviting comments or complaints to 16 Summer Lane, Birmingham! I often wondered if any correspondence made its way there. Given that Brum also has a "Highgate" that could have caused some interesting confusion! -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 3 Apr 2007 14:45:18 -0700, "MIG"
wrote: On Apr 3, 9:16 pm, (Neil Williams) wrote: On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote: That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? At least TfL don't have buses running round with "Wolverhampton" on the blind with the "hamp" coloured in in black pen to make it say "Wolver ton", nor with "Blecthley" on, nor other sillies as can be seen on the contracted evening services in Milton Keynes. Perhaps we should be grateful that it isn't just a bit of A4 in the windscreen... Although a few years ago on the 185 (which goes to Lewisham as it happens), there was a real mixture of almost-museum-piece buses from various counties, with carboard destinations in the front windows and so on. Maybe someone else can remember the story of the operator which went bust, resulting in that situation. I think the 185 was the only route they had run. It was shortly after I moved house, IIRC, and it was rather bizarre. |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On 3 Apr 2007 14:45:18 -0700, "MIG" wrote:
On Apr 3, 9:16 pm, (Neil Williams) wrote: On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote: That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? At least TfL don't have buses running round with "Wolverhampton" on the blind with the "hamp" coloured in in black pen to make it say "Wolver ton", nor with "Blecthley" on, nor other sillies as can be seen on the contracted evening services in Milton Keynes. Perhaps we should be grateful that it isn't just a bit of A4 in the windscreen... Although a few years ago on the 185 (which goes to Lewisham as it happens), there was a real mixture of almost-museum-piece buses from various counties, with carboard destinations in the front windows and so on. Maybe someone else can remember the story of the operator which went bust, resulting in that situation. I think the 185 was the only route they had run. You are referring to London Easylink [1] - they ran the 42 and 185. The company basically went bust because the MD, I think but am happy to be corrected, siphoned off a load of the companies money to fund his mistress. When the company collapsed TfL had to put emergency arrangements in place that led to the multi operator scenario on the 185. Initially Blue Triangle were put in charge of pulling together the emergency contract on the 185; http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/Routes/185.htm The 42 went straight to East Thames Buses - probably because it was a smaller scale operation and could be taken on quickly. http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/Routes/042.htm In the circumstances I'd rather have a bus and then worry about whether it has a piece of cardboard in the window. Blinds were improvised pretty quickly though. In the end the routes were transferred to the TfL "internal contractor of last resort" - East Thames Buses, where both routes remain today. [1] a bus operation set up by Durham Travel Services who were based in the North East of England. They started business off the back of former National Bus Company subsidiaries divesting themselves of National Express scheduled coach workings. DTS took over these Nat Ex contracts. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Bus destination blinds - how are they decided?
On Apr 4, 6:50 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 14:45:18 -0700, "MIG" wrote: On Apr 3, 9:16 pm, (Neil Williams) wrote: On 3 Apr 2007 04:31:08 -0700, "MIG" wrote: That might imply that each bus company designs its own, rather than them being imposed by TfL. Is there a correlation between the different versions and the company? At least TfL don't have buses running round with "Wolverhampton" on the blind with the "hamp" coloured in in black pen to make it say "Wolver ton", nor with "Blecthley" on, nor other sillies as can be seen on the contracted evening services in Milton Keynes. Perhaps we should be grateful that it isn't just a bit of A4 in the windscreen... Although a few years ago on the 185 (which goes to Lewisham as it happens), there was a real mixture of almost-museum-piece buses from various counties, with carboard destinations in the front windows and so on. Maybe someone else can remember the story of the operator which went bust, resulting in that situation. I think the 185 was the only route they had run. You are referring to London Easylink [1] - they ran the 42 and 185. The company basically went bust because the MD, I think but am happy to be corrected, siphoned off a load of the companies money to fund his mistress. When the company collapsed TfL had to put emergency arrangements in place that led to the multi operator scenario on the 185. Initially Blue Triangle were put in charge of pulling together the emergency contract on the 185; http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/Routes/185.htm The 42 went straight to East Thames Buses - probably because it was a smaller scale operation and could be taken on quickly. http://www.busesatwork.co.uk/Routes/042.htm In the circumstances I'd rather have a bus and then worry about whether it has a piece of cardboard in the window. Blinds were improvised pretty quickly though. I don't remember anyone complaining. It was all quite fun, travelling from Victoria to Vauxhall and wondering what might turn up next. |
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