On Apr 24, 1:37 pm, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:40:13 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, MIG wrote:
The ticket gates usually stay where they are. Readers in trains along
with some kind of GPS would save on the ridiculous going up the
escalator situation when passing the boundary of your paper travelcard,

Serves you right for having a paper travelcard .

Gates should be able to do this; say you have a Z12 paper travelcard and
an oyster with some pre-pay, and you go from Z1 to Z4, when you want to
get out at your destination, you should be able to stick your paper card
in, have it rejected with an 'excess fare required' message, then touch
your oyster to pay it. Well, that would be nice, anyway.

That wouldn't work. People would get to the zone 4 barrier with
their zone 1-2 ticket, get an excess fare required message and
wonder off to find a member of staff if they don't have an Oyster
card. Meanwhile the person behind them would end up paying the
excess fare from their Oyster balance.

David


No, the answer is to sell extensions at a sensible price to people who
can show a paper travelcard at the start of their journey.

There's no reason why the £4 punishment fare should apply to people
who need an extension on a paper travelcard.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007, David Walters wrote:

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:40:13 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007, MIG wrote:

The ticket gates usually stay where they are. Readers in trains along
with some kind of GPS would save on the ridiculous going up the
escalator situation when passing the boundary of your paper
travelcard,

Serves you right for having a paper travelcard .

Gates should be able to do this; say you have a Z12 paper travelcard
and an oyster with some pre-pay, and you go from Z1 to Z4, when you
want to get out at your destination, you should be able to stick your
paper card in, have it rejected with an 'excess fare required' message,
then touch your oyster to pay it. Well, that would be nice, anyway.

That wouldn't work. People would get to the zone 4 barrier with their
zone 1-2 ticket, get an excess fare required message and wonder off to
find a member of staff if they don't have an Oyster card. Meanwhile the
person behind them would end up paying the excess fare from their Oyster
balance.

I knew someone was going to say that!

A technical solution would be to have the gates able to detect when a
paper ticket had been pulled out of the return slot. You have the
excession mechanism operate only if the paper ticket is still in the slot,
with the gate considering a swipe after a paper ticket has been removed as
a new interaction. This only fails if someone puts in a paper ticket, is
rebuffed, wanders off leaving the ticket in place, and the person behind
them doesn't notice.

tom

--
these are my testing supplies

On Apr 24, 5:38 pm, MIG wrote:

No, the answer is to sell extensions at a sensible price to people who
can show a paper travelcard at the start of their journey.

There's no reason why the £4 punishment fare should apply to people
who need an extension on a paper travelcard.

AIUI, period Travelcards from out-boundary on National Rail are valid
from z1-6, so the question doesn't arise.

If you have any other form of period Travelcard, then not getting it
on Oyster is just bizarre masochism.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:

AIUI, period Travelcards from out-boundary on National Rail are valid
from z1-6, so the question doesn't arise.

Even on the Met north of Moor Park?

On Apr 26, 11:57 am, John B wrote:
On Apr 24, 5:38 pm, MIG wrote:



No, the answer is to sell extensions at a sensible price to people who
can show a paper travelcard at the start of their journey.

There's no reason why the £4 punishment fare should apply to people
who need an extension on a paper travelcard.

AIUI, period Travelcards from out-boundary on National Rail are valid
from z1-6, so the question doesn't arise.

If you have any other form of period Travelcard, then not getting it
on Oyster is just bizarre masochism.


Have you still not heard that National Rail stations don't sell or
update Oyster cards? Or that not everyone has an Oyster shop between
their home and their nearest station?

Or do you just mean that the bizarre masochism you refer to is
subsumed by the bizarre masochism of living in South London?

On 26 Apr 2007 03:57:22 -0700, John B wrote:

No, the answer is to sell extensions at a sensible price to people who
can show a paper travelcard at the start of their journey.

There's no reason why the £4 punishment fare should apply to people
who need an extension on a paper travelcard.

AIUI, period Travelcards from out-boundary on National Rail are valid
from z1-6, so the question doesn't arise.

Not so. They can be valid to any of the following:

Z1-6
Z2-6
Z3-6
Z4-6
Z5-6
Z6

On Apr 26, 7:05 pm, MIG wrote:
If you have any other form of period Travelcard, then not getting it
on Oyster is just bizarre masochism.

Have you still not heard that National Rail stations don't sell or
update Oyster cards? Or that not everyone has an Oyster shop between
their home and their nearest station?

Given I bought my annual z1-2 season ticket (with associated Gold
Record Card) on my Oyster card three weeks ago at a National Rail
station, I'm sceptical about your first claim.

When it comes to your latter claim, I'm still sceptical that there is
anyone who both requires daily travel within London, and lives and
works so far away from an Oyster-enabled ticket office or shop, that
dragging themselves to an Oyster venue once a month or once a year to
renew is a genuine problem.

Or do you just mean that the bizarre masochism you refer to is
subsumed by the bizarre masochism of living in South London?

While I do view living in South London as a kind of bizarre masochism,
I'm gradually getting the I'm shifting from N4 to E1 in a month or
so, and that's practically south of the river...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Apr 27, 12:54 am, John B wrote:
On Apr 26, 7:05 pm, MIG wrote:

If you have any other form of period Travelcard, then not getting it
on Oyster is just bizarre masochism.

Have you still not heard that National Rail stations don't sell or
update Oyster cards? Or that not everyone has an Oyster shop between
their home and their nearest station?

Given I bought my annual z1-2 season ticket (with associated Gold
Record Card) on my Oyster card three weeks ago at a National Rail
station, I'm sceptical about your first claim.


No need to be, it must be easy enough to check. Some have a card only
machine. Some have no facility at all.

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster? At least, which have anything more
than a Credit Card only machine? Some have neither. Putney springs
to mind as an example of a relatively major station with absolutely no
Oyster facility apart from the gates.




When it comes to your latter claim, I'm still sceptical that there is
anyone who both requires daily travel within London, and lives and
works so far away from an Oyster-enabled ticket office or shop, that
dragging themselves to an Oyster venue once a month or once a year to
renew is a genuine problem.


What if you are in a hurry to get to work in the mornings? (Some
people are.) What if you pay by preprinted company cheque (eg a loan)
and don't know the payee at an Oyster shop, or whether they'd accept
it? Your season's about to expire. You are standing in the Accounts
department. What do you tell them to put on the cheque?

Real life practicallity intervenes in the ideal model of what's
possible.



Or do you just mean that the bizarre masochism you refer to is
subsumed by the bizarre masochism of living in South London?

While I do view living in South London as a kind of bizarre masochism,
I'm gradually getting the I'm shifting from N4 to E1 in a month or
so, and that's practically south of the river...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

On Apr 27, 6:55 am, MIG wrote:
If you have any other form of period Travelcard, then not getting it
on Oyster is just bizarre masochism.

Have you still not heard that National Rail stations don't sell or
update Oyster cards? Or that not everyone has an Oyster shop between
their home and their nearest station?

Given I bought my annual z1-2 season ticket (with associated Gold
Record Card) on my Oyster card three weeks ago at a National Rail
station, I'm sceptical about your first claim.

No need to be, it must be easy enough to check. Some have a card only
machine. Some have no facility at all.

I read your claim as "[all] National Rail stations" rather than
"[some] National Rail stations" - apologies.

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster? At least, which have anything more
than a Credit Card only machine? Some have neither. Putney springs
to mind as an example of a relatively major station with absolutely no
Oyster facility apart from the gates.

My local one does (Finsbury Park, FCC side). I haven't tried
elsewhere.

When it comes to your latter claim, I'm still sceptical that there is
anyone who both requires daily travel within London, and lives and
works so far away from an Oyster-enabled ticket office or shop, that
dragging themselves to an Oyster venue once a month or once a year to
renew is a genuine problem.

What if you are in a hurry to get to work in the mornings? (Some
people are.)

Renew the night before.

What if you pay by preprinted company cheque (eg a loan)
and don't know the payee at an Oyster shop, or whether they'd accept
it? Your season's about to expire. You are standing in the Accounts
department. What do you tell them to put on the cheque?

London Underground Limited, then go to the nearest Tube station. Or go
to the newsagent, ask him his business name, and then return to the
accounts department.

Real life practicallity intervenes in the ideal model of what's
possible.

Only if your forward planning skills are dangerously limited.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

John B wrote:

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster? At least, which have anything more
than a Credit Card only machine? Some have neither. Putney springs
to mind as an example of a relatively major station with absolutely no
Oyster facility apart from the gates.

My local one does (Finsbury Park, FCC side).

Since Finsbury Park is served by LU, it's not an answer to the question.
Yes, many NR stations that are served by LU can sell Oyster on the NR
side. But many which aren't can't.
--
Michael Hoffman