MIG wrote

All the things you suggest are POSSIBLE. The point is that you have
to plan ahead like a military operation and make all kinds of
diversions in order to avoid the potential punishment fares for not
having your travelcard on Oyster when you do occaionally go to zone 3
on LU.

It's not my fault that if I do the typical thing of going to my local
station in the morning to catch a train and renew my travelcard at the
same time, I can only get a paper one.

Which is something I never did. In all my years with an annual I bought
it the day or W/E before or by mail. People who queued on Monday I
assumed liked queuing or liked complaining or both.

I do recall leaving work late or doing evening shopping so as to get to
the ticket window after the evening rush but then I don't expect the
world to be constructed to let me do as I wish and to also minimise my
time spent queuing.


--
Mike D

On Apr 28, 11:23 pm, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:
MIG wrote

All the things you suggest are POSSIBLE. The point is that you have

to plan ahead like a military operation and make all kinds of
diversions in order to avoid the potential punishment fares for not
having your travelcard on Oyster when you do occaionally go to zone 3
on LU.

It's not my fault that if I do the typical thing of going to my local

station in the morning to catch a train and renew my travelcard at the
same time, I can only get a paper one.

Which is something I never did. In all my years with an annual I bought
it the day or W/E before or by mail. People who queued on Monday I
assumed liked queuing or liked complaining or both.

I do recall leaving work late or doing evening shopping so as to get to
the ticket window after the evening rush but then I don't expect the
world to be constructed to let me do as I wish and to also minimise my
time spent queuing.


A local ticket office open in the evening?

A ticket office that sells Oyster in the evening but not the morning?

I didn't expect the world to be reconstructed to punish me for doing
the natural thing (ie buy my tickets at the station where I get on the
train), but it was.

It's unnecessary. Stop charging £4 for extensions. It's an obvious
and simple solution to the problem. All you are doing is picking on
every little thing I mention instead of addressing this basic point.

asdf wrote:
On 26 Apr 2007 22:55:58 -0700, MIG wrote:

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster?

Here is a complete list:

Beckenham Junction
City Thameslink
East Croydon
Essex Road
Fenchurch Street
Greenwich
Lewisham
Limehouse
Mitcham Junction

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/wheret...kets/1074.aspx

lists all NR stations with oyster capabilities.

From that list, at least:

Caledonian Road
Camden Road
Canonbury

are missing from your list and don't have LuL services (I'm not going to
try and recognize which NR stations on the TFL list have LuL services
too; I'll only get it wrong).

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:58:49 +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster?

Beckenham Junction
City Thameslink
East Croydon
Essex Road
Fenchurch Street
Greenwich
Lewisham
Limehouse
Mitcham Junction

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/wheret...kets/1074.aspx

lists all NR stations with oyster capabilities.

From that list, at least:

Caledonian Road
Camden Road
Canonbury

are missing from your list and don't have LuL services (I'm not going to
try and recognize which NR stations on the TFL list have LuL services
too; I'll only get it wrong).

I was using the list at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...ystercard.html .

At first I thought it just wasn't as up to date as the TfL one, but,
strangely, there are some stations on the NR list that aren't on the
TfL list as well as vice versa.

Anyway, the stations on the TfL list that aren't on the NR list (so
can be added to my previous list above) are as follows:

All NLL stations
South Hampstead
Kilburn High Road
Drayton Park
Ilford

In ,
Mike Bristow typed:
asdf wrote:
On 26 Apr 2007 22:55:58 -0700, MIG wrote:

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU (eg
Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster?

Here is a complete list:

Beckenham Junction
City Thameslink
East Croydon
Essex Road
Fenchurch Street
Greenwich
Lewisham
Limehouse
Mitcham Junction

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/wheret...kets/1074.aspx

lists all NR stations with oyster capabilities.

From that list, at least:

Caledonian Road
Camden Road
Canonbury

are missing from your list and don't have LuL services (I'm not going
to try and recognize which NR stations on the TFL list have LuL
services too; I'll only get it wrong).


Caledonian Road doesn't have LuL services??

It does if you don't add the "and Barnsbury" bit!!



--
Bob

On 23 Apr, 20:47, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:09:41 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:
Also, am i right in thinking paper tickets either don't have a unique ID
on them, or that this isn't recorded by gates? If not, LU should already
have had this data.

Some magnetic tickets did have unique numbers but they were a very small
part of the overall population. The vast majority did not and although
they were counted by type at each gate you could not follow "ticket
123456" through the system.

Presumably there is some way to identify a ticket within a station -
so that things like gate zig-zag can be identified?

Or do the gates just 'make it up' with the available data - thus
occassionaly closing out people with 'identical' tickets?

T

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:58:49 +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:

Can you tell me of any NR stations which are not served by LU
(eg Wimbledon) which do sell Oyster?

Beckenham Junction
City Thameslink
East Croydon
Essex Road
Fenchurch Street
Greenwich
Lewisham
Limehouse
Mitcham Junction

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/wheret...kets/1074.aspx

lists all NR stations with oyster capabilities.

From that list, at least:

Caledonian Road
Camden Road
Canonbury

are missing from your list and don't have LuL services (I'm not
going to try and recognize which NR stations on the TFL list have
LuL services too; I'll only get it wrong).

I was using the list at
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...ystercard.html .

At first I thought it just wasn't as up to date as the TfL one, but,
strangely, there are some stations on the NR list that aren't on the
TfL list as well as vice versa.

Anyway, the stations on the TfL list that aren't on the NR list (so
can be added to my previous list above) are as follows:

All NLL stations
South Hampstead
Kilburn High Road
Drayton Park
Ilford

The FCC area within which Oyster PAYG is accepted includes the GNC route
which presumably is why Drayton Park and Essex Road are in this list. Any
other such stations within FCC and other TOCs?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, wrote:

On 23 Apr, 20:47, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:09:41 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Also, am i right in thinking paper tickets either don't have a unique
ID on them, or that this isn't recorded by gates? If not, LU should
already have had this data.

Some magnetic tickets did have unique numbers but they were a very
small part of the overall population. The vast majority did not and
although they were counted by type at each gate you could not follow
"ticket 123456" through the system.

Presumably there is some way to identify a ticket within a station - so
that things like gate zig-zag can be identified?

A way to do that would be for the gate to write on the ticket that it's
just been used for exit at that station, and refuse tickets that have been
so marked. This is probably actually simpler, as it avoids having to have
the gates share knowledge of which tickets they've seen.

tom

--
The major advances in civilization are processes that all but wreck the
societies in which they occur. -- Alfred North Whitehead

On Tue, 1 May 2007 15:05:40 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, wrote:

On 23 Apr, 20:47, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:09:41 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Also, am i right in thinking paper tickets either don't have a unique
ID on them, or that this isn't recorded by gates? If not, LU should
already have had this data.

Some magnetic tickets did have unique numbers but they were a very
small part of the overall population. The vast majority did not and
although they were counted by type at each gate you could not follow
"ticket 123456" through the system.

Presumably there is some way to identify a ticket within a station - so
that things like gate zig-zag can be identified?

A way to do that would be for the gate to write on the ticket that it's
just been used for exit at that station, and refuse tickets that have been
so marked. This is probably actually simpler, as it avoids having to have
the gates share knowledge of which tickets they've seen.

I believe magnetic tickets hold the details of the last three uses.

On Tue, 01 May 2007 18:24:50 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

On Tue, 1 May 2007 15:05:40 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, wrote:

On 23 Apr, 20:47, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:09:41 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Also, am i right in thinking paper tickets either don't have a unique
ID on them, or that this isn't recorded by gates? If not, LU should
already have had this data.

Some magnetic tickets did have unique numbers but they were a very
small part of the overall population. The vast majority did not and
although they were counted by type at each gate you could not follow
"ticket 123456" through the system.

Presumably there is some way to identify a ticket within a station - so
that things like gate zig-zag can be identified?

A way to do that would be for the gate to write on the ticket that it's
just been used for exit at that station, and refuse tickets that have been
so marked. This is probably actually simpler, as it avoids having to have
the gates share knowledge of which tickets they've seen.

I believe magnetic tickets hold the details of the last three uses.

No they do not. They do not have sufficient capacity to do so. If a
ticket is valid and is accepted then certain key fields are updated. It
is this revised data that allows things like passback and zig zag to be
detected. Invalid tickets are not rewritten when put through a gate so
as to preserve the aspects of the ticket that are invalid.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!