Tom Anderson:
Has consideration ever been given to connecting the W&C to anything?

"Sam":
There have been proposals at various times for extensions north, to
meet the ex-Northern City Branch at Moorgate.

Notably by the Metropolitan Railway just after they took over the latter
line in 1913.

However, these proposals always mention that the Bank of England
vaults get in the way. I think in reality, the direction of the W&C
platforms at Bank isn't particularly suited to an extension at Moorgate.

To save money, the W&C station (originally called City, not Bank)
was built with its platforms some distance west of the actual square
where the Bank is -- what's why passengers reach the surface by a long
inclined tunnel (which did not have a moving ramp until 1960) -- and as
I understand it they're under Queen Victoria Street. That would give
a reasonable alignment for an extension toward Moorgate station, if
nothing was in the way, and if it was desired. Of course, the combined
line could then only use tube-size trains, so that would be one more
reason not to do it.
--
Mark Brader "To err is human, but to really mess things up
Toronto you need a timetable planner!"
-- Richard Porter

My text in this article is in the public domain.

In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

Boltar wrote:
On 29 Apr, 16:25, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
St. Mary's Curve is indeed double track but due to the sharp
curves, the signalling has been modified to only allow one train
in the section at any one time due to the possibility of trains
touching each other.

That begs the question of why did they build the tunnel that bit
too narrow?

Or the stock that bit too big?

Seriously, though, 'A' stock was not around when the curve was
built. The length of modern cars and the distance between the
bogies means that the centre of the vehicles swing further out when
curving than earlier short wheelbase stock would have done, with
the resulting danger of scraping trains passing in the other
direction. 'A' stock was never intended for the ELL and only really
ended up there as a result of their being some flexibility in the
fleet during a recessional period.

Hmm. Wasn't the ELL stock at the time the A stock was built the F stock?
That was pretty close to the A Stock in dimensions wasn't it? I think St.
Mary's Curve was sized for steam stock.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Tue, 1 May 2007 00:46 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:


Hmm. Wasn't the ELL stock at the time the A stock was built the F stock?

Yes, but it had only been there for a few years (since 1953, I believe).

Before that it was first generation District stock (mainly "B") stock -
and maybe others) which worked it from 1937 to 1953, having taken over
from earlier Met stock.

That was pretty close to the A Stock in dimensions wasn't it? I think St.
Mary's Curve was sized for steam stock.

Yes, but the curve was used for regular passenger services until 1939,
and I don't recall there being any restrictions for any stock before the
A stock arrived.

I have been ridden the curve as a passenger twice; once on F stock and
once on Q stock.

There seem to be very few photos around of the ELL between 1913
(electrification) and the F stock days. I don't have a single photo of
electric stock on the line before 1952.


--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

On 1 May, 09:34, Bill Hayles wrote:
I have been ridden *the curve as a passenger twice; once on F stock and
once on Q stock.

Is there anything to see over this section or is it basically a
featureless section of tunnel with a junction at each either end?

--
gordon

On 1 May 2007 14:24:22 -0700, "
wrote:

On 1 May, 09:34, Bill Hayles wrote:
I have been ridden 4he curve as a passenger twice; once on F stock and
once on Q stock.

Is there anything to see over this section or is it basically a
featureless section of tunnel with a junction at each either end?

That about sums it up.


--
Bill Hayles

http://billnot.com

On 30 Apr, 12:52, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007, John Rowland wrote:
Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

With these, it is possible to get from any part of the Underground to
any other part, albeit by some very convoluted routes in some cases.

.... apart from the Waterloo & City Line, which trains can only reach by
being lowered by a crane.

Has consideration ever been given to connecting the W&C to anything? I
reckon you could plumb it into the Central line at Bank; don't know if you
could get it up to mainline level at Waterloo, or anywhere near any of the
tube lines.

I've long thought it should be extended to Vauxhall and possibly
Clapham
Junction, to spread the load a bit. There was a discussion about that
here
a long time ago, and I've forgotten why it turned out to be a bad
idea.

Can't see much advantage in connecting the W&C and Victoria, though...

Thanks

Henry

Henry wrote:

[W&C]

I've long thought it should be extended to Vauxhall and possibly
Clapham
Junction, to spread the load a bit. There was a discussion about that
here
a long time ago, and I've forgotten why it turned out to be a bad
idea.

Can't see much advantage in connecting the W&C and Victoria, though...


The problem with the W&C is that, because of the short trains, it can
get horrendously overcrowded in the peaks (with queues up the ramps at
Waterloo).
This isn't too bad if everyone gets on at one end and gets off at the
other, but if you had an intermediate station, you'd be packing people
onto already full trains with very few getting off.
The only fix would be to extend the platforms at both stations to fit
proper length trains of 7 or 8 cars.

On Apr 29, 4:25 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message . com,
" writes

Is there a website which includes details of "odd" stretches of the LU
network not normally used for passenger carrying journeys? I'm
thinking mainly about connecting links between different "lines". Are
any of these quite lengthy? Would most drivers working Line "X" and
Line "Y" be trained to work over a connecting line between the two? Is
the link from the District Line to the East London Line just a short
tunnel section with double-track?

I don't know of any specific websites offhand but Tubeprune is likely to
have something. I have a copy of the 2002 London Transport Quail map
which shows all the track plans for LU, hence these links. I obtained
it from the London(s) Transport Museum some time ago, I don't know if
they still sell them though.

There are only a few specific links on LU as most lines have some common
sections (ie. Hammersmith Hanger Lane Junction for the
District/Piccadilly) and transfers can be done easily over these. The
only ones I can think of a

East London District over St. Mary's Curve.
Victoria Piccadilly over the crossover just south of Finsbury Park.
Northern Piccadilly via the Kings Cross Loop (a short tunnel from
Kings Cross (Northern Northbound) to Kings Cross (Piccadilly Eastbound).
CentralMetropolitan/Piccadilly at Ruislip depot. (You can also get
from the CentralDistrict at Ealing Broadway, but this has been disused
for many years, I tink since Central line ATO, and I'm not sure if it's
deemed available any more)



Talking of ATO, I think it used to be used for transfer between the
Victoria Line and the ATO Hainault - Woodford section, but I suppose
Ruislip would be just as good for that.

MIG wrote:
On Apr 29, 4:25 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message . com,
" writes

I don't know of any specific websites offhand but Tubeprune is
likely to have something. I have a copy of the 2002 London
Transport Quail map which shows all the track plans for LU, hence
these links. I obtained it from the London(s) Transport Museum some
time ago, I don't know if they still sell them though.

There are only a few specific links on LU as most lines have some
common sections (ie. Hammersmith Hanger Lane Junction for the
District/Piccadilly) and transfers can be done easily over these.
The only ones I can think of a

East London District over St. Mary's Curve.
Victoria Piccadilly over the crossover just south of Finsbury
Park. Northern Piccadilly via the Kings Cross Loop (a short
tunnel from Kings Cross (Northern Northbound) to Kings Cross
(Piccadilly Eastbound). CentralMetropolitan/Piccadilly at Ruislip
depot. (You can also get from the CentralDistrict at Ealing
Broadway, but this has been disused for many years, I tink since
Central line ATO, and I'm not sure if it's deemed available any more)

Talking of ATO, I think it used to be used for transfer between the
Victoria Line and the ATO Hainault - Woodford section, but I suppose
Ruislip would be just as good for that.

I don't understand - what is "it"/"that"?

I thought the ATO was removed from Woodford Hainault before the Vic was
opened.

John Rowland wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Apr 29, 4:25 pm, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message . com,
" writes

snip
(You can also get from the CentralDistrict at Ealing
Broadway, but this has been disused for many years, I tink since
Central line ATO, and I'm not sure if it's deemed available any
more)

Talking of ATO, I think it used to be used for transfer between the
Victoria Line and the ATO Hainault - Woodford section, but I suppose
Ruislip would be just as good for that.

I don't understand - what is "it"/"that"?

I thought the ATO was removed from Woodford Hainault before the Vic
was opened.

I think "it" is the District-Central link at Ealing Broadway and "that" is
transfer of the ATO trains between Victoria line and Central line, but it is
all rather confusing.

According to "The twopenny Tube" by J Graeme Bruce and Desmond F Croome pub
by Capital Transport the Victoria line trains were initially tested on the
Woodford Hainault ATO (Automatic Train Operation) fitted section before
going to the Victoria line. Some remained ther in service use until there
was a demand for them on the Victoria line the last going in September 1984.
The ATO on the Woodford-Hainault line was decommissioned from October 1986.


--
Cheers for now,

John from Harrow, Middx

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