In message
"John Rowland" wrote:

Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
"John Rowland"
wrote:


So many opinions, so few facts. Why don't we discuss how many angels
can dance on the head of a pin?



42

In a 9 * 6 formation?



of course.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

John Rowland wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
"John Rowland"
wrote:


So many opinions, so few facts. Why don't we discuss how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin?



42

In a 9 * 6 formation?

Only if you have 13 fingers.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 15 Jun, 13:56, Boltar wrote:

He should know that edgware and barnet are in the same direction
however. No matter how many excuses people make for this guy he made a
fundamental mistake which a regular commuter wouldn't have made ,
never mind a driver who should know better, and he could have caused a
major crash. Ergo he should get the boot. Though knowing what the
unions are like I expect he won't. Maybe he'll just be sent on Squash
leave or something.

B2003

One assumes you do not, or never have worked in an industry where you
can make an error that affects other people. Either that or are you
one of the lucky ones in life never to have made a mistake and needed
support ?

There was some debate at the start of this thread as to whether or not
the RAIB should be involved. For the sake of all those on the train,
and those involved this can only be a good thing IMO. All staff
involved will be interviewed (although by law i believe, some may
decline the RAIBs questions ?). Any recorded conversations will
normally also be revealed.

Perhaps, it may be possible, to use your tone, that somebody else
might "get the boot" for giving the driver a wrong instruction /
order. In which case the drivers union fees might actaully have come
in useful and the unions will arrange for some "squash leave" to
compensate him for being put in that position.

Perhaps he really did make a monumental mistake, either way it can
only be a good thing that the RAIB are involved so that all of the
speculation of this thread can be nicely put to rest in a PDF file in
a few months time.

Perhaps you can have the last laugh, as this appears to be your
stance, perhaps something else will be revealed.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:19:02 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
"John Rowland"
wrote:


So many opinions, so few facts. Why don't we discuss how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin?



42

In a 9 * 6 formation?

Only if you have 13 fingers.

Eleven, and two thumbs.

wrote:

There was some debate at the start of this thread as to
whether or not the RAIB should be involved.

I think the RNIB should be involved ;-)

On 16 Jun, 12:08, wrote:
One assumes you do not, or never have worked in an industry where you
can make an error that affects other people. Either that or are you
one of the lucky ones in life never to have made a mistake and needed
support ?

Everyone makes mistakes , but in some jobs in certain situations you
just don't. Perhaps thats unfair but thats just tough. If an airline
pilot took off in the wrong direction into the path of an oncoming
plane (and somehow survived) he be kicked out of his job so fast he'd
probably be flying without the aid of an aircraft. Same for plenty of
other professions. When you have peoples lives in your hands you DO
NOT make these sort of mistakes and if you do you can kiss your job -
and possible your arse - goodbye.

Perhaps, it may be possible, to use your tone, that somebody else
might "get the boot" for giving the driver a wrong instruction /
order. In which case the drivers union fees might actaully have come
in useful and the unions will arrange for some "squash leave" to
compensate him for being put in that position.

Oh give it a rest. If I drove the wrong way down a one way street that
I'm supposed to know well because I've trained on it, it would be my
responsibility if I almost caused an accident whether someone told me
to do it or not. Besides which , we're constantly told how these
drivers are "professionals". Well professionals don't make fundamental
mistakes like this and if they do perhaps they should just be replaced
by trained monkeys for a lot less money (but possibly more bananas).

B2003

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:13:55 -0700, Boltar
wrote:

Everyone makes mistakes , but in some jobs in certain situations you
just don't. Perhaps thats unfair but thats just tough. If an airline
pilot took off in the wrong direction into the path of an oncoming
plane (and somehow survived) he be kicked out of his job so fast he'd
probably be flying without the aid of an aircraft. Same for plenty of
other professions. When you have peoples lives in your hands you DO
NOT make these sort of mistakes and if you do you can kiss your job -
and possible your arse - goodbye.

This is true.

It did occur to me, when my bus shot past the stop because the driver
"forgot" on Friday, that that kind of thing happens on the buses all
the time, and the only penalty for it is a moan from the passenger(s)
affected. On t'railway, it would be a far more serious offence.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Boltar wrote:

Everyone makes mistakes , but in some jobs in certain situations you
just don't. ... and if you do you can kiss your job goodbye.

Only the most Neanderthal management would take that approach. It is
much more sensible to determine the causes of the "mistake". If the same
kind of circumstances are likely to arise again, then in the case of
most people, the fact that they have done something incorrectly once and
discovered the consequences will generally make them avoid that
particular course of action in future.

Of course, incompetent staff shouldn't be mollycoddled, but proper
monitoring is what management is about. Poor employees will have files
containing more than one piece of evidence about poor performance. Good
employees will have good files, and one blemish shouldn't necessarily
lead to that file being closed.

And don't push any of that guff about there being plenty of other people
willing to do that particular job. Of two people, one of whom is a total
stranger, while the other is a person in whom the company has invested
thousands in training, only a fool would automatically assume that the
stranger is a better bet than the trained worker. (Sadly, I have known
many people with that opinion in middle management.)

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9632959.html
(43 095 at London Kings Cross, 1982)

On 17 Jun, 09:15, Chris Tolley wrote:
employees will have good files, and one blemish shouldn't necessarily
lead to that file being closed.

If he'd been going a bit faster and had a collision and killed
himself, the other driver and possibly some passengers too, would you
still just consider it a "blemish"? And don't say "well he didn't".
That was down to pure luck the other train had stopped, not any action
on his part.

B2003

On 17 Jun, 15:36, Boltar wrote:
On 17 Jun, 09:15, Chris Tolley wrote:

If he'd been going a bit faster and had a collision and killed
himself, the other driver and possibly some passengers too, would you
still just consider it a "blemish"? And don't say "well he didn't".
That was down to pure luck the other train had stopped, not any action
on his part.

I'd hardly call the fact that a train was standing at a signal showing
a red aspect due to the section ahead being occupied "pure luck".